[Ally Mcintosh]

This taking a lead from a Mike Young comment elsewhere...

I don't know any / many which is the point of starting this thread. This thread is not for talking about idealistic strategy or beautiful bunkers or minimalist design etc... etc... 

It's for highlighting efforts to build cheap golf courses that introduce people to the game and work financially, hopefully showing that good to great courses can be built under these parameters - but also that flat out basic ones have plenty of merit if they are achieving those aims...

Only stipulation is that we are talking about modern golf courses... As always, photos / links would be nice if possible...

[David Davis]

I believe this is being done to a certain extent successfully here in The Netherlands. Hopefully Frank Pont will chime in here. He invited me to play his course Turfvaert which is a public pay and play but I believe it was designed very inexpensively (perfect for the Dutch golfers) and the greenfees offer great value for money. It's also ecologically very sounds and sustainable if I'm not mistaken.

Maybe it's a concept that's being done in other countries, I'm not sure of all the details.

Here's the website: http://www.deturfvaert.nl/

Most is in Dutch but you can click around and look at the photos.

I personally don't love the course if I'm being really critical (as usual) as Frank knows but I really think it's a success and it serves it's purpose and fits the title of this thread. The other thing is I don't think it's necessarily aimed at beginners as good players can enjoy it too but do think it's much more beginner - intermediate friendly.

Frank?

[Paul Gray]

Every pitch and putt ever build? 

[Thomas Dai]

Not been there (yet) myself, but Covesea near Lossiemouth - http://www.covesealinks.com/news-article/Covesea-Open - has been mentioned herein before. View the photos on their website - what a great looking location.
All the best

[Jud_T]

Common Ground?

[Jeff_Brauer]

I still think the model for the affordable course is found in Newton, KS, where the city worked with a developer to get free land, issued some tax rebates, paid for the utility extensions for both, built an effluent pipeline for eventual use for many others, etc.  In the end, they started charging at $29, but I think it has risen out of the sheer popularity of the course.

As to being easy, the gca may have missed the mark slightly there, since its hosting the last Publinx tourney next year, can be stretched to 7400 yards (that, and carts only are a potential hazard of stretching courses through 800 acres of real estate) but it does seem pretty playable to most.

That basic formula has been in place for 100 years - let housing and municipalities subsidize the golf.  We do create bunkers for views for sales, but maybe the formula is (and it really is, BTW) to remove such bunkers or many of them, at the first renovation of the golf course, (or its bunkers, which can come sooner).

[Jason Thurman]

Common Ground?

My first thought. Also Gibson Bay in Richmond, KY.

Both courses can test really good players. CommonGround was the second host course for an Amateur and Gibson Bay can stretch well over 7000 yards. But both are also really affordable, fairly open and very playable, and have nice practice facilities. They also both have a short course, which is a nice perk for beginners who may not be ready to play from 5000+ yards yet.

I don't think you can market ONLY at beginners. You need to be able to tap the die-hard market for real sustainability. But both of those courses were clearly built with the beginners as just as big a priority as the advanced guys. They're also both resounding successes in my mind. Gibson Bay is the best course I've seen that can be walked for under $20, and it's not close. It also might do more rounds than any other course in Kentucky. If it's not #1, it must be close. And CommonGround is also thriving from what I hear.

[Don_Mahaffey]

The city of Hobbs, NM is about to break ground on a complete renovation of their 18 hole muni course which includes the addition of a short 9 hole "kids course". The short course gives kids and other beginners a place to learn the game. The city is already developing parks and rec programs to teach the game to beginners.
Andy Staples is the architect and the project is rebranding the facility as a community links. Not a links course, but linking golf to the community. Clubhouse is a community building and the project includes walking trails integrating with the golf.

[Peter Pallotta]

...[T]he project is rebranding the facility as a community links. Not a links course, but linking golf to the community. Clubhouse is a community building and the project includes walking trails integrating with the golf.

What do I know about such things, but it feels to me that this is THE model for a healthy golfing culture, now and (increasingly) in the future. I wish more people would "think small' -- having modest goals is not a crime.

Peter

[Adam Warren]

Common Ground?

My first thought. Also Gibson Bay in Richmond, KY.

Both courses can test really good players. CommonGround was the second host course for an Amateur and Gibson Bay can stretch well over 7000 yards. But both are also really affordable, fairly open and very playable, and have nice practice facilities. They also both have a short course, which is a nice perk for beginners who may not be ready to play from 5000+ yards yet.

I don't think you can market ONLY at beginners. You need to be able to tap the die-hard market for real sustainability. But both of those courses were clearly built with the beginners as just as big a priority as the advanced guys. They're also both resounding successes in my mind. Gibson Bay is the best course I've seen that can be walked for under $20, and it's not close. It also might do more rounds than any other course in Kentucky. If it's not #1, it must be close. And CommonGround is also thriving from what I hear.

Good call on GB thurman.  Also noteable that the course is owned by the city of Richmond.  Haven't been there in a few years.  I might need to make a trip!

[Lou_Duran]

The city of Hobbs, NM is about to break ground on a complete renovation of their 18 hole muni course which includes the addition of a short 9 hole "kids course". The short course gives kids and other beginners a place to learn the game. The city is already developing parks and rec programs to teach the game to beginners.
Andy Staples is the architect and the project is rebranding the facility as a community links. Not a links course, but linking golf to the community. Clubhouse is a community building and the project includes walking trails integrating with the golf.

We had a GCA outing in NM years ago that included a day at Pinion Hills and burgers at Casa Clayman (NLE).  I was fortunate that the site's Most Beloved consented to playing in my group, and thus, I was regaled with some very interesting and unusual perspectives on golf and its architecture.  Among these was Ran's fascination with an elementary school immediately adjacent to the course and the delight he took from the scene of children happily enjoying recess on the playground.   Me, I was a bit annoyed by all the noise until Ran shared this observation- something to the effect that every community would be well-served to have a Pinion Hills (and the setting we were experiencing).  Of course, he is right.

I don't know what Pinion Hills cost to build- Adam Clayman is well versed on its history and operation- but the low cost of land (desert) and moderate prices make such a course possible.  Dallas has six or seven munis in its parks system that serve this purpose (senior rate of $14-$20 during the week to walk).  It would be impossible for the city to acquire the land today and replicate the courses.

Years back, driving ranges were springing up as means to generate income while warehousing the land until growth led to a higher use.  I am not sure that with irrigation, energy, taxes, and insurance, that building even a rudimentary course is possible without subsidies in many metro markets.  The city of Mansfield southwest of Dallas did it with a public/private structure more than a decade ago for $5 Million turnkey.  I understand that Mansfield National does over 60k rounds annually and the greenfees are very affordable (also offers range and golf membership plans).

Jeff Brauer's Sand Creek Station in Newton is my hidden gem of the year.  Those travelling to Prairie Dunes should stop for a round on the way at least once- I played with a member at PD who plays SCS several times each year, he likes it so much.  That it is a bargain is an added bonus.
  

[Tom Kelly]

Not been there (yet) myself, but Covesea near Lossiemouth - http://www.covesealinks.com/news-article/Covesea-Open - has been mentioned herein before. View the photos on their website - what a great looking location.
All the best

Looks interesting, anyone else got any more info?

[Andrew Buck]

This taking a lead from a Mike Young comment elsewhere...

I don't know any / many which is the point of starting this thread. This thread is not for talking about idealistic strategy or beautiful bunkers or minimalist design etc... etc...  

It's for highlighting efforts to build cheap golf courses that introduce people to the game and work financially, hopefully showing that good to great courses can be built under these parameters - but also that flat out basic ones have plenty of merit if they are achieving those aims...

Only stipulation is that we are talking about modern golf courses... As always, photos / links would be nice if possible...

Don't those courses already exist?  In areas where they under serve the market I would anticipate that land would not be affordable enough to make it work, financially.

[Tom_Doak]

Most of the examples (except Jeff's) are of adaptations of existing golf courses -- including Common Ground.  That only makes sense for a project with community goals, because the #1 most important factor to success is location.  You have to be within walking distance of the community you're trying to serve, or biking distance, maybe.  And the only way you can afford 100+ acres close to a population center is if the town already owns it.

Another issue is whether the municipal bidding process will drive up the cost of renovation.  Generally, I want no part of those things.  We were lucky at Common Ground in that we were dealing with the Colorado Golf Association, not with the town directly, or we never would have been hired.  Too many towns are required to go the plans & specs & contractors & bid route, as they've been told by the professional organizations -- and that often drives up the costs significantly.

Actually, though, the whole idea that these facilities need to be completely redesigned to attain these goals is probably misguided.  The main thing they need is to change their own mission statement, and then adhere to it.  The usage of many in-town munis is completely controlled by a bunch of older guys in a golf league who think cheap golf is their god-given right, and who won't make time or space for the next generation to learn.

[Mike_Young]

It seems to me that the examples being touted as working are subsidized by the municipalities.  Government will not grow golf the way private enterprise will.  
Also, I keep hearing discussion of course difficulty.  I think the beginner defines difficulty in a different way from the low handicap player.  IMHO if one keeps the bunker depth shallow and keeps the greens from being extremely elevated most beginners feel more comfortable and yet the course can be set up for tournament play and hold up.  
Give me an open field with a water source, one height of cut with a gang mower, one triplex greens mower, couple of tees, small greens and a small proshop and it will work...BUT NO ONE SELLING TO THIS BUSINESS MAKES MONEY, NOT THE ARCHITECT, BUILDER, IRRIGATION SUPPLIER, PRO SHOP VENDORS....AND SO IT WILL NEVER BE PROMOTED BY THE INDUSTRY....it's much more profitable to convince a municipality to subsidize and let the industry make the dollars....

[Andrew Buck]

It seems to me that the simple truth is golf courses are a terrible business investment.

They makes sense to build in some cases if you desire to sell lots.  They make sense to build in some cases if you desire to increase tourism, or attract people to a resort.  A few unique sites can work for world class golf, however I'd guess most of those cannibalize from other world class golf.  A municipality may benefit from a break even operation to help foster lifestyles that attract business and residents.

Other than that, the only way I can see anyone really justifying investing in golf courses is their own personal love of the game.  If you already have cheap land, don't go overboard, are a hands on owner/operator and have the right product for the location you can probably make a living on something you love.  If you're willing to take a substandard ROI because you love the game, it may be able to break even without day to day operation.  

It seems to me the companies with the biggest stake in growing the game are the equipment manufacturers who have an annuity of golf ball sales, and can get players to change clubs and buy shoes/clothes regularly.  At some point, I wonder if it will make sense for them to begin to subsidize entry into the game?

[Jason Topp]

The Hennepin County Park System built a terrific facility on a small piece of property for this purpose.  It has very good practice facilities and a 9 hole par 30 course that is enjoyable to play.  The place is swarming with kids and beginners all season.  It also receives a fair amount of senior play.  

TI think a key advantage of the place (other than location) is that the practice facility is very nice.  It has a huge teeing area so you can hit off of good grass all season.  Thus, many core golfers use it for practice.  When we lived a mile away, I often hit balls there rather than drive to my club five miles away.

The result is a facility that is a comfortable place for new golfers while still exposing them to people who have been around the game a long time and can demonstrate all of the etiquette and unspoken customs of the game that make it daunting to a newcomer.

Here is a link:  http://www.threeriversparks.org/parks/glen-lake-golf.aspx

[Tom_Doak]

It seems to me that the simple truth is golf courses are a terrible business investment.

 the only way I can see anyone really justifying investing in golf courses is their own personal love of the game.  If you already have cheap land, don't go overboard, are a hands on owner/operator and have the right product for the location you can probably make a living on something you love.  If you're willing to take a substandard ROI because you love the game, it may be able to break even without day to day operation.

Andrew:

The game of golf would be better served if anyone motivated by ROI just stayed out of the business.  There would be fewer courses, fewer failures, and a lot less pressure to change the game into something it's not.

What's sad to me is that golf is not seen by municipalities and authorities for what it once was -- outdoor recreation for the community.  Nowadays it's seen as a business to be watched carefully.  We have the golf business to thank for that.

[Andrew Buck]

It seems to me that the simple truth is golf courses are a terrible business investment.

 the only way I can see anyone really justifying investing in golf courses is their own personal love of the game.  If you already have cheap land, don't go overboard, are a hands on owner/operator and have the right product for the location you can probably make a living on something you love.  If you're willing to take a substandard ROI because you love the game, it may be able to break even without day to day operation.

Andrew:

The game of golf would be better served if anyone motivated by ROI just stayed out of the business.  There would be fewer courses, fewer failures, and a lot less pressure to change the game into something it's not.

What's sad to me is that golf is not seen by municipalities and authorities for what it once was -- outdoor recreation for the community.  Nowadays it's seen as a business to be watched carefully.  We have the golf business to thank for that.

I agree completely.

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