Tom Watson on Royal Aberdeen

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

"“Tom Watson says Royal Aberdeen has maybe the best nine holes of golf in the world so I am very keen to see it."
- Sir Nick Faldo

Which nine?  His comment surprised me given I haven't heard much about the course.

[Garland Bayley]

"Royal Aberdeen, located on the north-east coast of Scotland, is widely known for possessing one of the finest first nines in golf."

Opening line of Ran's review on this website.

[Thomas Dai]

"Royal Aberdeen, located on the north-east coast of Scotland, is widely known for possessing one of the finest first nines in golf."
Opening line of Ran's review on this website.

what I suggest it should say is "Royal Aberdeen, located on the north-east coast of Scotland, is widely known for possessing one of the finest first nines in golf....and the back-9 is bloody good as well"!

When the Walker Cup was played at Royal Aberdeen, aka Balgownie, an overheard comment apparently from one of the players went along the lines of "We didn't win the Walker Cup. Royal Aberdeen won the Walker Cup. The course just chewed us up and spat us out". But that event was played in Sept and the course was very green and the rough long.

I also recall the British Seniors played there in the summer a few years ago when the course played more firm-n-fast in character. Greg Norman should have won it but on the par-4 16th hole of the final round his course management got the better of him and when others were playing cosy off the tee on this over-the-saddle hole Greg chose to go long with a driver but was a little too tight down the left side and ended up bouncing into the gorse. Tom 'Mr Links Course Management' Watson won, after a play-off with Des Smyth.

Watch the course on TV from Thurs 10th July to Sun 13th July when it hosts the Scottish Open.

It'll be interesting to see Phil Mickelson defend the title he won at Castle Stuart last year. I wonder if he'll carry a driver in his bag?

Please God, let there be no haar (thoroughly unpleasant sea mist).

atb

[Frank Pont]

I cannot believe Faldo hasn't seen R Aberdeen yet

[Adam Lawrence]

Magnificent course. If Trump's course ever achieves the status of best course in Aberdeen it'll be most of the way to his ultimate goal.

[Paul Gray]

I cannot believe Faldo hasn't seen R Aberdeen yet

Oh I can. He's the model of a modern (ish) pro that was born to not 'get it.'

[BCrosby]

I have never understood the plaudits given the front nine at RA. Albeit nestled among the dunes, its tight fairways are bounded on both sides by thick whins that tend to swallow golf balls. Giving the effect of playing down a narrow corridor bounded on both sides by parallel water hazards. If there is a play to anywhere but the middle of the fw, I didn't see it.    

Perversely perhaps, the course came alive for me on the back nine. It is certainly less photogenic; much less visually "memorable" (used with M. Bourgeois' permission). Some awkward, obviously man-made features there, but I found the golf to be more interesting. I thought the 17th and 18th were especially good holes.

Bob

[David_Tepper]

"I have never understood the plaudits given the front nine at RA. Albeit nestled among the dunes, its tight fairways are bounded on both sides by thick whins that tend to swallow golf balls"

BCrosby -

When did you last play RA? The whins you refer to have been dramatically cutback/eliminated over the past several years. I was there during the Walker Cup (September, 2012) and most of the whins on the front-9 were well out of play.

DT

[Ryan Coles]

I cannot believe Faldo hasn't seen R Aberdeen yet

Oh I can. He's the model of a modern (ish) pro that was born to not 'get it.'

I strongly disagree. Faldo may be humourless and borderline autistic, but I think he has a tremendous grasp of strategy, has written a lot about classic courses and was speaking out against over watering of our heaths and links over 20 years ago.

I think you picked on the wrong pro. Faldo is of the previous generation. He is nowhere near the modern pro.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Pro's or Architects cant see every course and RA is a long way off the beaten track, RA and Cruden Bay will be missed by many because of its location, perhaps with Trump more will get enticed to tick the three off.

It does not make you a bad architect if you have not seen them.

I think Faldo is one pro/architect that does take a real interest in his design work

[Michael Goldstein]

It's 80 miles from St Andrews to Royal Aberdeen.
I would hardly call that out of the way to see two of the worlds best golf courses. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Michael you clearly are not British. Aberdeen is not on many peoples instant radar for golf if you are a southerner. For golf that area is about 6th or 7th on the destination list, with so many others in front of it also world class.

When Nick Faldo is in St Andrews he probably does not have a car, most people fly to Edinburgh hire a car, highly unlikely unless it is planned that you would drive the best part of two hours each way to go see a course. You would either play it or not bother.

[Michael Goldstein]

Indeed I am not British.
And indeed on reflection it would be sixth on my UK destination list. 
But it's a lot more accessible geographically than two destinations above it. 
Any architect worth their salt should make a six hour round trip effort to see Cruden Bay.   

 





 

[Ally Mcintosh]

Indeed I am not British.
And indeed on reflection it would be sixth on my UK destination list. 
But it's a lot more accessible geographically than two destinations above it. 
Any architect worth their salt should make a six hour round trip effort to see Cruden Bay.   

 

Michael,

I am 40 years old.

I have already written off the fact that there are better courses than both Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen that I will never see, even if I live and work in GCA for a long time more.

Only this year did I get up to Dornoch for the first time (I grew up in Aberdeen). I have yet to see the whole South East coast of England.

I'm going to give Sir Nicholas a pass.

[jeffwarne]

I cannot believe Faldo hasn't seen R Aberdeen yet

Oh I can. He's the model of a modern (ish) pro that was born to not 'get it.'

I strongly disagree. Faldo may be humourless and borderline autistic, but I think he has a tremendous grasp of strategy, has written a lot about classic courses and was speaking out against over watering of our heaths and links over 20 years ago.

I think you picked on the wrong pro. Faldo is of the previous generation. He is nowhere near the modern pro.

+1  Good points Ryan
and a strong supporter of links golf.
The guy tried to buy Ballyliffin and I believe has/had an option to buy an island off the coast of Ireland for a links course
These guys don't exactly have time when playing to simply go play the local links on a whim.
At their peak, every waking moment is spent on maintaining and improving, and dealing with the logistics of travel, while attempting to maintain lives and families the same as you and I.
It could be that RA was just a bit too far down the list for him to logistically and practically get to.

and Michael G., it's not like there aren't a bunch of great course to choose from between Edinburgh area and Cruden Bay-lots of visit worthy courses without going all the way to Cruden Bay.
So much to see so little time

[Ryan Coles]

Speaking for myself, reasons for not playing RA.

St Andrews/Fife to the south offer a bit better of a destination. Aberdeen seems a bit grim. Not fussed about playing the surrounding courses - Murcar, Newmachar etc. They don't compare to Boat of Garten, Brora, Golspie when building a trip around Dornoch, Nairn & Castle Stuart. Or say Ladybank, Fairmont, around St Andrews.

The highlands to the north offer much better value and much more of a "holiday" off the course. RA seems a relatively expensive greenfee.

I only go for 4-5 days max. Usually to one location. 13 courses in 12 days etc which I read about on here, doesn't really appeal or suit. Lots of other areas/courses to visit before Aberdeen.

[Michael Goldstein]

Jeff,

Firstly well done on getting through to final stage it was good to follow your progress online.  Yes, there's a whole lot of great golf between Edinburgh and Cruden Bay!  I was thinking of the drive up from St Andrews where it's not too bad (and more accessible than many of the St Andrews courses).

Ally, cheers for your response.
It's an interesting point you're touching on namely, how much do architects value seeing new golf courses as part of their professional development.  Obviously for someone like Tom Doak it's highly valued and he appears to commit time to it as such.  For others I'm sure it's less so.  



 

 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Michael lots of architects see it differently, some like to copy some don't. Tom's way is one way but its no law that you have to do it that way and those of us that don't go looking at golf courses around the world are not unsalted. Most parcels of land that architects get to design golf courses are not perfect and the holes need to be made, sometimes even forced to fit, for most of us its much more than 18 stakes for greens and 18 for the tees.

That aside I would love to visit at least everything top 100 in GB & I. Currently I have over 50 gaps.

[JBovay]

I have never understood the plaudits given the front nine at RA. Albeit nestled among the dunes, its tight fairways are bounded on both sides by thick whins that tend to swallow golf balls. Giving the effect of playing down a narrow corridor bounded on both sides by parallel water hazards. If there is a play to anywhere but the middle of the fw, I didn't see it.    

The whins you refer to have been dramatically cutback/eliminated over the past several years. I was there during the Walker Cup (September, 2012) and most of the whins on the front-9 were well out of play.

BC and DT,

The whins are still well out of play, but the rough was thick and lush in late May, and it was simply impossible to find a golf ball unless you had a clear view of where it came to rest from the tee. Not too much different from my experience among the dunes at Cruden Bay, Carnoustie, or the New Course, but RA's rough was more penal and yes, it has something like the effect of each fairway being bordered by OB.

Does this make a course set up like RA better for match play than stroke play? Perhaps not high-stakes match play, but member play?

JB

[Tom_Doak]

Michael lots of architects see it differently, some like to copy some don't. Tom's way is one way but its no law that you have to do it that way and those of us that don't go looking at golf courses around the world are not unsalted. Most parcels of land that architects get to design golf courses are not perfect and the holes need to be made, sometimes even forced to fit, for most of us its much more than 18 stakes for greens and 18 for the tees.

Adrian:

The advantage of my having seen so many courses is that I seldom feel the need to "copy" anything.  I think the guys who copy are the ones who never find any new inspiration.

That said, I certainly understand why not many other architects devote as much of their lives to travel as I have done.  I have given up a great many things in the process, and I wouldn't recommend some of those trade-offs to any of you.