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Rick Wolffe

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What's wrong in this Picture?
« on: August 06, 2013, 10:37:13 PM »
Photo Credit: Ed Oden 2008



Photo Credit: A.W. Tillinghast 1926

« Last Edit: August 07, 2013, 08:09:29 AM by Rick Wolffe »

Mark McKeever

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2013, 10:39:53 PM »
Front of the green is missing.
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Jim Sherma

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2013, 10:46:28 PM »
More open view past the right of the green post tree removal than in the earlier picture. Not sure if the front of the green was ever pinable based on that picture.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2013, 10:46:55 PM »
Road signs are not historically authentic.
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Rick Wolffe

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2013, 11:07:38 PM »
Here's another what's wrong photo?

Photo Credit: Ed Oden 2008


Photo Credit: A.W. Tillinghast 1928


Patrick_Mucci

Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2013, 12:08:26 AM »
Rick,

I prefer the original right side bunker and how it presents itself to the golfer's eye.

I think it's a more intimidating look

Gotta run, be back later

David_Elvins

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2013, 12:52:53 AM »
You really notice how much greener the courses are today. 
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Gib_Papazian

Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2013, 01:38:18 AM »
Obviously, in set #1, the dripping lush drainage swale installed in front of the green defeats the purpose of encouraging the run-up shot - as opposed to a fairway that seamlessly runs onto the putting surface.

In set #2, the extension of the creek(?) further to the right makes the approach a forced-carry - as opposed to the original configuration that provides the option of using the ramp to the right that feeds onto the green.

Additionally, in set #1, I am not a fan of so-called "high side" bunkers as they often contradict the natural flow of the ground.    

Steve Kline

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2013, 05:40:43 AM »
In addition to what others have said, in set #1 the newer picture appears to have a golf cart crossing sign behind the green.

Jim Nugent

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2013, 05:57:14 AM »
In your second group of photos, it looks like the 2nd photo (the b&w) was taken from a different angle, higher and further to the right.  Makes it hard for me to compare. 

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2013, 07:59:40 AM »
They cleared out a lot of underbrush in the trees behind the green in the second photo, most likely for air circulation, but I don't know I would qualify that as "something wrong".

All in all, those two greens, years apart, are pretty well preserved.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sean Remington (SBR)

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2013, 08:11:57 AM »
First pic :    To me the biggest change other than the green is the bunker on the right.  It's been split into two and less sand visable now.  Looks less intimidating now.

Second :  The angle of pictures is very different so it's difficult to tell.  Looks like the green surface is slightly smaller today.


Rick Wolffe

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2013, 08:34:57 AM »
Here is another...what's wrong in the photo?

Photo Credit: Ed Oden 2008


Photo Credit: AW Tillinghast 1926

Adam Clayman

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2013, 08:37:36 AM »
Mow lines mitigating the gathering nature of the bunkers.
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Tim Gavrich

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2013, 08:42:34 AM »
In all three cases, now, it's clear that the greens have receded from their initial edges. This pulls bunkers away from the greens and makes them less directly imposing, both visually and practically. I really can't understand how maintenance people (hell, and regular players/members) don't pick up on the fact that bunker edges drift too far from greens. But it happens everywhere.

Here in Myrtle Beach, I can spot it at every single course I've played at least a couple times over the last five years or so. It's atrocious, and just scaldingly obvious to the eye that where there should be green or fringe, there's now rough.
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Mark Saltzman

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2013, 08:47:30 AM »


Photo Credit: A.W. Tillinghast 1928



Jim Sherma

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2013, 08:53:23 AM »
Having played here for the first time this past Sunday I have to say that green shrinkage was not an obvious problem. There are many courses where you see obvious green pads that are not being fully utilized and this was not the case in any obvious manner. Based on the before and after pictures it does not look like the additional green size was pinable and this leads me to believe that it might have just been a slow cost saving type of deal. Whether or not this type of shrinkage served to effectively shrink the bunker collection areas I am not sure.

Is there a meaningful cost difference for a club like this between maintaining a false front/run-off at green height as opposed to fairway height?

Kenny Baer

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2013, 09:04:26 AM »
Nothing; considering those set of pictures are 82 years apart, I find them remarkably similar.

Matthew Runde

Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2013, 09:12:35 AM »
You really notice how much greener the courses are today. 

You're my hero.

Ronald Montesano

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2013, 10:18:59 AM »
Well, Rick, are we warm or cold?
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RJ_Daley

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2013, 11:35:23 AM »
While it may be attributable to slightly different angles, where it is near impossible to get the exact angle of the camera used 82 years ago, to my eye, the back edges of the greens seem higher.  The greens seem to slope back to front a little more dramatically.  If this is the case, might the shaving down have been done by request of golfers due to softer greens and the maintenance meld with more watering?  

Similarly, the back side of these greens from the old days seem like they may have even more dramatic fall-away, into junk.  Given the greens roll faster with new age mowing and cultural practices, the slope needed to be reduced to allow chips back onto the greens from the rear to have a chance of holding on the green.  In the olden days, the greens speed was probably slow enough where the chips from behind would not roll off the front as likely as they would with today's green speeds.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Jim Nugent

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2013, 11:56:27 PM »
Mark's photos give us a better angle at the 2nd photos.  Not 100% sure, but looks like the green was wider before, there was no bunker on the right side, and you could run your ball up to the green easier from there.  Now it looks like you pretty well need to fly your approach in: trying to run your ball onto the green is too much threading the needle.    

Brad Klein

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2013, 07:55:37 AM »
And they're about to tear up all of their greens there at BCC-FF?


Mark McKeever

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2013, 08:26:06 AM »
Man I wish there were pictures taken like that at Wissahickon..

MM
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jim Franklin

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Re: What's wrong in this Picture?
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2013, 10:50:59 AM »
And they're about to tear up all of their greens there at BCC-FF?



Getting them to USGA specs. Is that a good thing? We'll find out.

The angles of the pictures are a little off. The one of the 18th is closer to said surface than the color version. In the color version, you don't see the dip in the fairway that rises back into a small false front of the green.
Mr Hurricane

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