Doak's best finishing hole

[Mark McKeever]

I read the thread title and immediately thought 18 at Stonewall.  Awesome finish there as well.

Mark

[Josh Tarble]

I know Cape Kidnappers is a bit controversial, but I really enjoyed it. Very fun way to end the round.  I could see why some don't like it though.

  If 17 were the final hole it might get my vote, but the way the 18th green gathers golf balls makes a mediocre shot just as likely to turn out well as a good one.

Actually, it depends on the hole location.  If the hole is on the left side of the green, you can't bounce one in there, you have to hit a great shot that lands at the bottom of the bowl.  We used the same feature on the 18th at Streamsong.

That's kind of why I liked the hole...just different from most other finishers.

And Tom, I was going to say 18 at SS reminds me a bit of 18 at Cape Kidnappers, they're almost the inverse of each other.  One is up and one is down.

[Andy Troeger]

I haven't played Stonewall or Streamsong, which seem to be getting a lot of votes. I liked Stone Eagle, Pac Dunes, and Old MacDonald the best of the ten I have seen.

Tom,
Since it is fresh in my mind, I'm curious about the cart path crossover placement on #18 at CommonGround. It seems to be right in the place where a good drive would end up on a reachable par five. Is it to force layups? Both my friend and I ended up in the rough over the hill after we hit drives that we thought were pretty good.

[Dan_Callahan]

Am I the only one who really liked the 18th at Beechtree?

[PCCraig]

After a recent play I thought the 18th at Rock Creek was pretty darn neat (especially from the back tees).

[Bill Brightly]

Stonewall Old is the most beautiful. Stone Eagle is probably the coolest:

[Mark McKeever]

Bill,

I really like how the corner of the front left bunker leaks into the desert.  Really cool look.

Mark

[Carl Rogers]

Am I the only one who really liked the 18th at Beechtree?

No, you are not.  I thought the last 3 holes at Beechtree were an interesting breather - let you end the round on an easy note to the holes in the middle of the back nine (12-15) that were very hard holes.

[Michael George]

Pacific Dunes.  In addition to being a stunningly beautiful hole through the dunes, it is the rare par 5 where every shot matters as much as the others.  Just a great 1st, 2nd and 3rd shot, with an entertaining green to finish.

[Will MacEwen]

Pacific Dunes.  In addition to being a stunningly beautiful hole through the dunes, it is the rare par 5 where every shot matters as much as the others.  Just a great 1st, 2nd and 3rd shot, with an entertaining green to finish.

I've only played OM and PD for Doak courses, but concur entirely with your description of the 18th.  It is rare to find a par 5 so exacting, and at the end of a round, with the wind in your face, it is a great physical and mental test.

[Mike Hendren]

Pacific Dunes.

Oh, hell no...

+1.  It's a slog and radical departure from the rest of this fine golf course.

Perhaps Tom learned to build an over-the-top finisher from his mentor Pete Dye.

Bogey

[Jeff Taylor]

Am I the only one who really liked the 18th at Beechtree?

No, you are not.  I thought the last 3 holes at Beechtree were an interesting breather - let you end the round on an easy note to the holes in the middle of the back none (12-15) that were very hard holes.

The 18th at Beechtree first motivated me to pay attention to golf course architecture. By accident I hit a low running 3 wood up the right hand side. The shape of the land took the ball onto the green and delivered it pin high. How lucky I thought. Then I thought some more.

[Jim Tang]

I will take the 18th at Ballyneal.  Beautiful setting with some risk/reward in it.

It could be a birdie hole, especially if the stick is up front right, but, it also can be a tough finishing hole, if the stick is back left.  I always felt the flag location on the 18th really changes the dymanic of the hole, one way or the other.

[Doug Siebert]

What I really enjoy about the 18th at Dismal's Red is the contrast of where you finish compared to where you start - in terms of the type of land and golf hole it is, not the fact it is not finishing where it starts (though that is unique I think it is much ado about nothing in a place like Dismal River where there is no reason at all for it to start and finish in the same place) It makes the contrast of the front/back at Tralee or Pacific Grove look minor by comparison. I have seen and played holes like the Red's 1st and the Red's 18th before, but finding them both on a single course that flows as well as the Red does is pretty amazing when you sit down and think about it.

Something about the 1st at the Red reminds of the 1st at Hanse's Crail Craigshead. Perhaps it is simply that it starts with an uphill par 5, I think there is more that reminds me of that hole but I can't quite put my finger on it. The 18th at the Red reminds me of more than a few holes I play in Iowa, the cape style hole over ball eating bottom land is not rare here, but the visuals from the tee due to the canted fairway offer a much better view of what you're trying to accomplish than is typical for this type of hole in my experience.

I don't know that the contrast you get in the routing from the 1st to the 18th qualifies the Red's 18th a great finishing hole by itself, but it certainly sticks in your mind and makes you think. It is more memorable to me than Sand Hills' 18th, despite playing that 4 times in two days versus only two for the Red in two days. The valley of gunk short of the green shouldn't present a problem to an intelligent golfer because there is a ton of room to bail out on the left if you are playing a long shot in and worry about making the carry. If it plays long enough (either due to lack of length, being out of position off the tee, or wind) that carrying that to reach the green is a concern, then it is really playing like a par 4 1/2 for you and should be approached that way. If someone feels they must put the ball on the green in two because it is a par 4 and ends up losing a ball in that little valley, then the golfer has beaten themselves as far as I'm concerned.

[Stephen Davis]

I didn't quite understand what the native growth was for on the humps in the fairway next to the 150 yard marker. It was a bit of a head scratcher to be honest. The slope of the fairway wants to funnel the ball right into very deep native. It will be interesting to see if this feature is modified at all in the future.

[John Chilver-Stainer]

I recently returned from an incredible trip of the West Coast of the USA where I managed to play 11 golf courses, one of them being Tom Doak’s and Jim Urbina’s, Old MacDonald course at Bandon Dunes. The course was impressive and particularly the 18th Hole.

At the first tee the starter told me to make a note of the pin position on the 18th green.
I noted front right and headed off.

It was a great mid June day, sunny with a touch of breeze. I was solo with not many players on the course, so I could play a second ball now and then to test the alternatives.

On the 18th  Hole which was aptly named the Punchbowl, I’d placed my tee shot, with about 160 yards to go. As I came up to my ball, I examined the green to check out my third shot to the green. Looking up I saw a bold punchbowl which would pull a rolling ball left to right. There was no sign of the flag, which was hidden behind a large mound front right of the green. Thanks to the starter I knew where the pin was.

It was a perfect opportunity to try out my favourite shot, a ½ stroke choked 5-iron pitch and run, and attempt tp roll it into the green, let it catch the punch bowl and move the ball towards the invisible pin.

I struck a ball slightly left of the opening, which bounced off the fast fairway and ran towards the green opening, ran over the punchbowl to the back of the green.
Too strong, try again.
I put down another ball, playing only slightly left of central and not as strong. The ball stayed on line down the fairway, then  started rolling into the green and caught the embankment of the lower punchbowl before disappearing out of sight to the right.

On the first tee some players preparing to start their game, were watching my shot and pointing at my invisible ball on the green. That must be close, I thought. When I got up to the hole – no ball to be seen. I looked into the cup, and sure enough the ball was nestling at the bottom. An eagle – even if it was a Mulligan.

So the 18th at Old MacDonald get’s my vote as best Doak (and Urbina) hole, for it’s bold traditional Scottish design elements where the best shot is a ground shot played away from the direct line to the pin.

[John Kavanaugh]

I didn't quite understand what the native growth was for on the humps in the fairway next to the 150 yard marker. It was a bit of a head scratcher to be honest. The slope of the fairway wants to funnel the ball right into very deep native. It will be interesting to see if this feature is modified at all in the future.

After I lost my ball in one of these gunch humps I told my partner that they are there to remind the golfer to stay left. It was surprising how close they are to the river. They really are quite beautiful in a comb over kind of way. It was the only ball I lost the entire trip so I got over it.  Considering it was the 54th hole in the tournament you might consider the choke quotient. Nothing like trouble right for a guy limping home with a lead.

[Jim Beard]

Of the courses I have played with Doak being my favorite designer:
1. Lost Dunes
2. Sebonack
3. Pacific Dunes
4. Stone Eagle
5. Streamsong Blue
6. Rock Creek Cattle Company
7. Ballyneal
8. Commonground

Favorite OVERALL course:
1.Pacific Dunes
2. Rock Creek Cattle Company
3. Streamsong Blue
4. Sebonack
5. Ballyneal
6. Stone Eagle
7. Lost Dunes
8. Commonground

[Doug Siebert]

I didn't quite understand what the native growth was for on the humps in the fairway next to the 150 yard marker. It was a bit of a head scratcher to be honest. The slope of the fairway wants to funnel the ball right into very deep native. It will be interesting to see if this feature is modified at all in the future.

I hope they stick around (Chris told me he was thinking about cutting that grass down) because I kind of like the character they add to the tee shot.  It looks ever so inviting to use as an aiming point, but there's actually almost no advantage to hitting over them.  There is no extra kick, no better lie, no better angle, perhaps a one club difference between just aiming left.  Sometimes you see something that looks like that and just figure if you challenge such a feature you will get some benefit from boldly taking it on, but in this case it exists just to tease you.

If they were mowed down, however, just having a couple F&F raised pimples of fairway might prove be to more of a challenge - balls would take some interesting kicks off them.  Having them covered in rough would narrow the search parameters over where you'd have to look for your ball if you hit one of those obliquely on the fly and kicked into the heavy stuff along the river side of the fairway.

[David Davis]

For me the best I've played is the 18th at PD. It's a great finish requiring excellent shots. Love the way it runs through the dunes and I absolutely love the contours of the greenside bunkering and the way the hole winds through the dunes. I think it's a great finish to one of my favorite courses. I've not played Sebonack yet but have heard great things. I like the 18th at OM but not close to as much as PD. I thought the hole was really easy from the back tees but hit a good tee shot and the wind was behind me and hard at that. My feeling was it was a bit easy as a finishing hole. I can't think of anyway to make the 18th at PD easy under any circumstances unless it's match play and you win on the 17th and walk off ha ha..

Dismal, finish is also very nice, I didn't mind the native grass bunkers but I didn't lose my ball there after hitting a good drive like Stephen. I did witness his and was surprised it was lost. I only wanted to get my par, while swatting flies away and get out of there as fast as possible. It's a great hole, no doubt but IMO just not as good as PD or in the ball park for me.
 

[Chris Johnston]

The "eyebrows" on 18 Fairway at Dismal Red have been affected by extensive grow in irrigation.  Same with the natural areas in front of the green.  As the turf matures, both will then be thinned out as will the rough.  For some, the chosen tee made for a pretty difficult hole.  Maybe next year we'll move up a tee to make the hole a bit easier.

Sorry about the lost balls...the course is just a baby and we thought it a cool idea for the people who saw it last year to be able to preview play it this year. 

Considering the massive (Big and Little Horseshoe) features and the river, this is one of Tom's very best finishes of the work I've seen.

[Stephen Davis]

I wasn't worried about the ball, I found it in fact, but I am glad to hear that they will be thinned out over time. They are a full stroke penalty right now, where as I think a half stroke penalty is more appropriate. Great hole though! I really love just about every hole on the Doak course.

[Jim Franklin]

After a recent play I thought the 18th at Rock Creek was pretty darn neat (especially from the back tees).

Don't let Matt Ward hear this.  I liked 18 at RCCC as well, but it certainly isn't his best closer. I just played Stonewall (Old) again and 18 is tremendous. I have that and Old Macdonald as my two favorite finishers.

[jonathan_becker]

Of the eight Doak courses I've played, my vote is for St. Andrews Beach.

I love the fact that an aggressive play over the right bunkering off the tee gets rewarded with a short approach and a good birdie opportunity.  I also love the fact that a safer shot out to the left will face a longer approach, but the green is still receptive to that longer club required.  Finally, it's just a really nice greensite  with the framing surrounds.

[Matt Glore]

I must have missed the 490 set of tees on the Dismal River Red Course.   I love the tee box area with the separated tee boxes between the growth.  I think we played about 375 box and I hit a 4 iron to the left side about 140 out and easy 9 middle of the green.  It looks to me thats the way that hole should be played.  We walked around the right side landing area and it's much more an adventure over there. 
I agree it's one of the top18s I've seen.  I personally like the challenge of a driver off the last to test the endurance of the golfer.  Either short or long the 18th at dismal will be impressive.   The view standing on the far right of the green looking down is cool too.