[Patrick_Mucci]

I haven't abandoned the importance of preferred angles of attack.  Perhaps you need to play some more of my courses. 

Tom, I'm hoping to visit Streamsong in mid-March and I regret not getting out to Ballyneal, which some consider your best design.
So........ I'm working on it.

I was just agreeing with Doug that if the greens don't have some shape or some tilt to them, and the approach is relatively short, then the angle is not as important for the good golfer as it looks on a drawing.

I certainly agree.

I believe that the question of shape and tilt of the greens is the explanation for all of the holes you cited as important examples, except for the 11th at Augusta National, where it's all about the frightening water hazard at the left front.

In a general sense, do you think there's a reluctance to create the architectural situation found at # 12 at PV, that it could be deemed unfair or a time delayer ?

In another thread I believe you discussed replication and I've always found it odd that # 12 at PV wasn't replicated more often, especially due to it's relatively short nature.

[Garland Bayley]

"Augusta's overarching philosophy is to give you a lot of room off the tee, and then to place a premium on the second shot. Most of my life I've played that way, what I call second shot golf. The tee shot was almost a formality for me. I'd step up to the tee, knock the ball out there, and then really focus on the second shot to the green. Fortunately that's been the way Augusta has been laid out for most of my career."

Jack Nicklaus, Nicklaus by Design, pg. 12.

"We wanted what you'd call a "second-shot golf course," similar to Bobby Jones and Alister MacKenzie's philosophy at Augusta National. That is, when you play the course from the members' tees, you've got plenty of room to drive the ball and you have relatively easy access to the greens. Then, all you do when you want to host a world-class field is hid the pins, cut the greens, and take the tees back, and you end up with a first-rate championship golf course, one that puts the emphasis not on the tee shot, but on the second shot and/or the approach shot (in the case of par-5s).

Jack Nicklaus, Nicklaus by Design, pg. 145.

"The second shot is the most demanding on the majority of my courses. It not only reveals the player, but in many ways reveals the designer as well. The second shot is where you really get to know how a designer integrates his fairways and greens."

Jack Nicklaus, Nicklaus by Design, pg. 185.

[Mike Schott]

I played Rustic Canyon today and while driving to a specific side of the fairway is an advantage, especially for the low handicap golfer, the course is all about the second shot. Due to the complex green sites, a miss can lead to some big scores. The internal contours require a well placed approach. By the way it's playing very firm and fast right now.

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