[David Davis]

Yesterday I had the great pleasure of playing this brand new course and very private and very expensive (for The Nethelrands - 28,000 euro entry) together with the architect Bruno Steensels.

Now the dilemma for me is this. What the heck do you end up with if you have the worst location and the architect simply kills it and puts together one of the best routings you've experienced on a new course? To put this place into perspective, it's build next to Amsterdam Schiphol airport, on the 5th hole planes come as close as 150 meters above you while landing. The course is then bordered on the South and West ends by two of the major freeways in The Netherlands. Yes, there is noise, lots of it, the surrounding are ugly, there is distraction everywhere and somehow against my better judgement on an semi cold, very windy and miserable day I loved the routing. I'm certain many will argue that's it's the best architectural work in The Netherlands. It's certainly one of the most playable courses and will no doubt host the Dutch Open as soon as the other contractual obligations are met.

Have any of you had this experience before at other clubs. I have to admit an architect killing it with an A location is the best but I just don't know how low you can rate a location, F? Then have the architect kill it....what do you get?

A little help to get me through this crisis please? 

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

The new reality of golf development is probably brownfields, poor locations, and the occassional resort in a formerly second or third world country.  If noise is the main problem and the course is great, so what.  Royal Troon and Inwood are within a couple hundred yards of major airports and I don't remember any conversation about the noise factor.  As an aside, I will always treasure watching the concord take off and land at JFK whille playing Inwood.   

[Mark Pearce]

David,

I don't see the problem here.  It sounds like you really enjoyed the course.  Why should you feel the need to mark it down simply because of the setting?

[David Davis]

Mark,

I'm hoping for examples of top courses that are in similar settings, I can't think of any and have never played any myself and I've played a few hundred courses in other countries. So to me that tells me something. I mean this is not a Carnoustie or Royal Lythem where the towns are not the most beautiful. I don't remember freeways and airports there.

So perhaps it's just me, perhaps it's what you're use to. This is a shocker for me. Maybe just because everything about me and my experience says I'd prefer to not like the course based on the fact that it takes away from one of the primary things I find important in golf.

If you don't see any problem here, please share a couple examples and even photos if you have them of courses you really liked that were just in aesthetically terrible places. Courses that you would consider top courses in that country or in the UK.

[Mark Pearce]

David,

Robert mentioned Royal Troon.  A number of the classic heathland courses are right by very busy roads.  Seaton Carew has a backdrop of the Teesside chemicals complex, with ghost ships thrown in for good measure.  The Craighead course at Crail adjoins a disused airfield where motorsport takes place most weekends.  I'm sure there are more.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Walton heath has been negatively impacted by the M25.   Although I haven’t played it, I’m given to believe Moray Old will become a must see course in Scotland if/when the airbase next door goes.


The first time I played Portrush was on a rare day when the light wind was  from the south and low cloud covered the course.  Instead of the sound of the sea the tyre noise from the wet road was really offputting.  I’ve spoken to members and they’ve said that they’ve never encountered that combination of factors, but it shows it can change your perception of a place.  I’ve played too many new courses next to motorways not to have developed an aversion to this kind of noise.


Presumably there is a real shortage of tony courses near Amsterdamn to make the owners believe they can command that price in a recession?

[Mike Policano]

David,

I was fortunate to play The International just before its official opening. I didn't find the noise bothersome nor the planes. Then again, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY where background noise is as present as the air.

In NJ Mountain Ridge is next to a small airport that can be very busy on beautiful days and Canoe Brook has Route 24 highway splitting through the North and South courses.

The International seems to enjoy a very accessible location. It will be interesting to see if it appeals to European business people who travel to Amsterdam. I would definitely play again, if given the opportunity, on my way to your home course Noordwijkse Golf Club which is one of my favorites.

Cheers, Mike

[David Davis]

David,

I was fortunate to play The International just before its official opening. I didn't find the noise bothersome nor the planes. Then again, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY where background noise is as present as the air.

In NJ Mountain Ridge is next to a small airport that can be very busy on beautiful days and Canoe Brook has Route 24 highway splitting through the North and South courses.

The International seems to enjoy a very accessible location. It will be interesting to see if it appeals to European business people who travel to Amsterdam. I would definitely play again, if given the opportunity, on my way to your home course Noordwijkse Golf Club which is one of my favorites.

Cheers, Mike

Mike thanks!

I think I know the group you were with actually and of course this is a guess but one of the younger members of my club but arguably our best player is related to one of the organizers. Glad you like Noordwijkse, let me know anytime you want to come back.

However, more relevant to this conversation, what did you think of the course and the routing at The International? I know you have to kind of look through the fact that it's a very young course. I'd be interested to hear what your group thought as a whole as I'm sure it's been discussed in detail.

Thanks

[Tim Gavrich]

Doesn't the non-traditional golf surroundings enhance the experience at places like Bayonne GC and Liberty National? The pictures I've seen of both courses have always impressed me.

[David Davis]

Brian, I think we probably see pretty much eye to eye on this.

Tony/Mark, No one has mentioned a course that I've played yet so it seems there are enough of them out there. Wait I did play Royal Portrush but it's was a perfect sunny and windy day. No interference anywhere.

I think perhaps another part of my point was that unless I'd played all the 5 star - high Doak rated courses in an area and even then I'm not certain if I'd choose without someone coercing me that I really should experience it, to see a course in this kind of surroundings. I've not played the courses in downtown LA for example but have an impression they are quiet oasis's in comparison. Even though I'll admit to finding it pretty darn cool that the plane that was landing almost on top of us, 150 meters right above our heads (the length of a 7 iron straight up for those of you that can only relate distances in terms of your golf clubs) and all the effects that the high winds had on that plane going in partially sideways were a good show as well.

[Brian_Ewen]

Although I haven’t played it, I’m given to believe Moray Old will become a must see course in Scotland if/when the airbase next door goes.

I couldnt get over how noisy and annoying the steady stream of helicopters flying over Trump International could be.

[Niall C]

Tony

Moray Old is a must play with the Tornado jets !

Niall

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