[Jason Topp]

The Ocean course features a number of cape-type tee shots where a more agressive angle over an angled waste area yields a better line and a distance advantage.  It is a classical design concept that rewards agressive play with an advantagous result.

The problem with the concept from my perspective is that with modern equipment, it effectively doubles the advantage of carry distance off the tee.  I know I can clear 225 yards with a well struck tee ball.  If I am playing on a straight fairway with someone that carries the ball 10 yards less, I am probably going to outdrive the person by 10 yards.  On a cape tee shot, I can gain 20 yards and get a better angle into the green.  If I am feeling shaky, I can bail out a bit and still have an advantage over the shorter hitter with a driver or hit 3 wood and wind up in a similar spot.

I think modern equipment has made this type of design less attractive than it was in the days of persimmon when mishits were more common. 

* I know a cape hole is technically defined at the green but that is not the feature I am discussing here. 

[Matthew Petersen]

The Ocean course features a number of cape-type tee shots where a more agressive angle over an angled waste area yields a better line and a distance advantage.  It is a classical design concept that rewards agressive play with an advantagous result.

The problem with the concept from my perspective is that with modern equipment, it effectively doubles the advantage of carry distance off the tee.  I know I can clear 225 yards with a well struck tee ball.  If I am playing on a straight fairway with someone that carries the ball 10 yards less, I am probably going to outdrive the person by 10 yards.  On a cape tee shot, I can gain 20 yards and get a better angle into the green.  If I am feeling shaky, I can bail out a bit and still have an advantage over the shorter hitter with a driver or hit 3 wood and wind up in a similar spot.

I think modern equipment has made this type of design less attractive than it was in the days of persimmon when mishits were more common. 

* I know a cape hole is technically defined at the green but that is not the feature I am discussing here. 

There's certainly some truth to this, but one of the things I like about the "cape style" tee shot (or the bite off as much as you dare, if you prefer) is that it doesn't have to be strictly about carry. A well-shaped shot can yield very good results for such a shot. If you can really control a cut or draw, it can run out down the line of the hole. Someone really able to execute that shot well can end up in even better position that someone who goes for pure carry.

[Mike Nuzzo]

I agree that The Ocean Course has too many angled tee shots for every day play because of the repetitiveness.
The holes look similar from above - and I have played the course.
Every once in a while it is healthy to give an extra reward or incentive to the longer hitter.
Cheers

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matthew,

But, if you push or pull your "shaped shot" you're really dead.

Jason's scenario reminds me of the 6th and 16th at Pine Valley

[Matthew Petersen]

Matthew,

But, if you push or pull your "shaped shot" you're really dead.

Jason's scenario reminds me of the 6th and 16th at Pine Valley

Of course, that's why it's still risk-reward ... just as it is for the person trying to do it all by carry.

[Jason Topp]

Good points by all.  I guess my criticism of the Ocean Course is that nearly every hole has one. 

[Matthew Petersen]

Good points by all.  I guess my criticism of the Ocean Course is that nearly every hole has one. 

That is a real Pete Dye trademark. Even his straight holes never play straight.

[Jason Topp]

Good points by all.  I guess my criticism of the Ocean Course is that nearly every hole has one. 

That is a real Pete Dye trademark. Even his straight holes never play straight.

I recall an interview where he said he abandoned this approach at Whistling Straits - concluding that distance was enough reward on its own such that a better angle should not be an added bonus.  I have not played the course.

[Nigel Islam]

I think the problem I have with cape holes is when there are multiple cape tee shots a side usually with water. See 80% of Florida courses.

[Matthew Petersen]

Good points by all.  I guess my criticism of the Ocean Course is that nearly every hole has one. 

That is a real Pete Dye trademark. Even his straight holes never play straight.

I recall an interview where he said he abandoned this approach at Whistling Straits - concluding that distance was enough reward on its own such that a better angle should not be an added bonus.  I have not played the course.

I have no played there, either, but from aerials that would seem to be the case. For all the trouble there, many of the fairways are "straight ahead" in a way that isn't common to a lot of his work.

I think you can see some of that in his continual tinkering with the 18th at Kiawah Ocean as well. Guys got so long they could carry over all the trouble down the right and be left with a very short approach from the preferred angle. He basically keeps lengthening the hole to keep that from happening, which restores some of the strategy (ie,hugging the bunker right leaves a better angle while bombing it own the left makes the approach shorter, but over a bunker from a tougher angle).

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