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Is Seminole Ross's best work or #2?
Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.
Quote from: Josh Tarble on November 20, 2012, 12:52:32 PMIs Seminole Ross's best work or #2? wannamoisettMark,Wannamoisett is a wonderful golf course, but, Seminole is far better.Superior to # 2 I believe.
Is Seminole Ross's best work or #2? I'd go with Seminole.Especially given the choice of having to play each, every day.The course, in combination with the wind and conditions is simply superlative.
Unless the greens are flat as pancakes 12-13 is too quick on wind exposed greens. The ball would be rolling all over the place if the breeze got above 20mph. There is a reason the R&A aim for 10.5 at the beginning of the Open Championship and our championship greens are relatively flat compared to some I've seen.Mark,There really aren't any flat greens. # 5 and # 15 probably come closest to being called flat.As to firm, I couldn't get my metal pronged ball fixer into the turf on the greens to fix slight marks.Arthur Weber (Webber?) did a study on stimp speeds and slope.I published/quoted the chart on another thread.The greens at Seminole, at speed and you can fix speed based upon the caliber of golfer competing that day, are frightening in medal play.Not that they aren't frightening in match play, but, in match play you can only lose one hole at a time.The greens are sloped and crowned, effectively reducing their large size to about half, or 1/3 in the case of # 17.When the PGA Tour Pros play in informal events, par is a good number.I think the course max's out at about 6,900 from the back tees.All of the par 5's can be easily hit in two by better players, conditions permitting.A fellow playing in our group, who's a big hitter, hit drive 6 iron to 8 feet into # 3.Another fellow in my group hit 9 in two.We almost hit 14 in two and were just off the green on # 15 in two, but, that was with a wind mostly from the north, which makes holes, 1, 2, 4, 10, 11, 16 very difficult with the cross wind holes being no bargain.On several occassions, bunker shots, hit just a little to gingerly, ran off the far side.It's an incredibly benign looking course, until you have to play it in a 2-3 club wind, then, it exposes any weakness in any and every part of your game.The fairways are very generous, the rough benign, but, enough to create marginal shots, and marginal shots don't fare well at Seminole.It's simply one of the best, most challenging, most fun golf courses you could play, day in and day out.And, it's a "golfing" membership
Pat,I like greens with internal contour.I like holes that are designed to be interesting in all types of wind.I like tempting options.Would I like Seminole? NO,You'd love Seminole.
Brian S.It's not at all hard to get fast and firm in Florida as long as your members don't mind a bit of brown and yellow from time to time (particularly in the winter when the Bermuda dies). The only evergreen courses in Florida are those haunted by and catering to turistas from Europe..... Brian,I think the main impediment to acheiving F&F in Florida in the winter is the culture of the club.In the summer, it's Mother Nature.Most golf courses East of the Turnpike enjoy sandy soil and where there's sandy soil, F&F becomes easier.Brian I. et. al.Vis a vis Pat's bets. I'll take the 5-1 odds that even the great Mucci himself can't break 80 at Seminole under his conditions, as long as he plays strictly by the Rules of Golf and we have credible witnesses. It's certainly not a bet that I'd jump on.Hole locations, tee locations and wind direction and velocity would influence my decision.What many don't realize is the influence of the wind on putting.It buffets you as you stand over your putt and on fast greens it influences the roll of the ball, so you have to gauge pace, line and the influence of the wind.Even a hole as simple as # 1 can be a killer, especially into a north wind.It's so easy to leave your approach with a long putt, or to hit a marginal approach which finds a bunker or a tightly mown area leaving you a dicey recovery.# 10 is ridiculously scarey into a north wind, especially with a left or back left hole location.It's a short hole that extracts more than it's share in doubles, triples and higher.Got to go, be back later. Can I suggest Tom Paul? Rich
Mike Schott,I agree with you. Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.
Quote from: Tim_Weiman on November 20, 2012, 02:09:45 PMMike Schott,I agree with you. Not many typical, average muni golfers have heard of a place like Seminole (or NGLA, Crystal Downs, etc.) Pebble Beach, for sure, but not those highly rated gems that don't show up on television while hosting a tournament.Tim and Mike,What courses other than Augusta and Pebble has the "typical, average muni golfer" heard of ?
This post may show my ignorance, but so be it, I'll ask anyway.How does Seminole compare to Timuquana in Jax? Brian,The terrain, location and effect of the wind are vastly different.While I liked Timuguana, it's not in the same league with Seminole.I played Timmy twice in March and was blown away. Timiquana is really more of a northern Florida course, a bit inland and tree lined.Seminole is right on the ocean with a few palm trees and a lot of wind.It was totally unlike what I expected for a Florida golf course. To me, it seemed more like a NC Sandhills course (albeit with far less elevation). Seminole has some striking elevation changes, whereas Timiquana is relatively flat.Seminole's greens and green surrounds are simply spectacular and considerably better as is their scale.Hope that helps