16th Revision of the Dr Alister Mackenzie Chronology

[Padraig Dooley]

Neil:

Very impressive work. Well done to everybody involved.

I didn't see Galway mentioned; have you any info on Mackenzie's involvement?

The Cork GC centenary book has very little on Mackenzie. An Irishman by the name of Jack Fleming (1896-1985) is said to have carried out the work at both Cork (late 1924) and Muskerry for the Mackenzie brothers. The book also mentions that he worked on Cypress Point and that there's a 9-hole course in SF named after him.

Donal

The information in the Cork centenary book seems to be incorrect. Most of the information on MacKenzie was lost in a clubhouse fire in the 40s. However we came across a minute book recently which has information on MacKenzie's visits to the course. There is no mention of Fleming in the minutes, another construction foreman is mentioned. I'm going to get some copies of the MacKenzie mentions and pass them on to Neil.

 

[Neil_Crafter]

Donal and Padraig
On Galway we only have a little information as follows:

DSH suggest there are conflicting reports of AM's involvement. Revision of existing course by Colt, Mackenzie & Alison from 1925-30. Both Hawtree and C&W lists as a redesign but with no date. Club history section on website says that new land for the course was acquired in April 1924 and the firm of Colt and Alison was engaged - Dr Mackenzie visited the site and staked out the positions of tees and greens in one day. The first 9 holes opened in April 1925 and it took a further 4 years to complete.

Not a lot there as you can see, but I'm not sure anyone from our research team has ever approached the club directly to see what they have in their archives in the way of minutes, letters, reports etc. Some local help would be much appreciated :-)

I certainly believe there is lots more to be discovered about Mackenzie's various trips to Ireland.

Padraig
Look forward to the Mac mentions when you dig them out and we will add them for the 17th!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Sean,

As Bob said, nice find.

Does anyone else find Jones's comments "underestimating" in terms of his evaluations ?

[Bill_McBride]

Great find Sean.

Jones was posting some incredible scores on courses he had never seen before. Note that the only course on which he was over par was Max Behr's Lakeside. A course he later revisited for the filming of some of his instructional shorts in '31 and '32.

Knowing how well Jones was playing makes his upset loss in the US Am at Pebble that summer all the more surprising.

Bob

Bob, didn't Jones feel very uncomfortable about 18  hole matches?

[BCrosby]

Bill -

Yes he did. For the usual reasons. Anyone can beat anyone over 18 holes.

(There's one exception to the general rule. Mike Young can't beat me over 18 holes. )

One of the reasons Sean's find is so interesting is that by the summer of '29 I suspect Jones was already thinking about his 'ideal' course project. He was paying close attention to the courses he saw in Cal. In particular, I've always wondered about his impression of  Behr's Lakeside in LA. It is a course that, in many ways, is a better model for ANGC than Cyoress, the usual suspect. CPC would not have been a very good starting point for a clay-based course to be built in a piney wood on the Georgia Piedmont. In that regard, I've wondered if Jones ever met Behr. I have no evidence that he did (Sean, you got something on that?), but I would like to think they would have enjoyed each others' company. They would have had lots to talk about. 

Bob