[Mark Saltzman]

I'm not a fan of the placement of a lot of the fairway bunkering.  I'm not sure what the goal was with many of the bunkers other than maybe to frame the hole?  I think a whole bunch of them could be removed.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to start the back nine.

We started on the 10th hole, not long after the rain passed so the skies were still gray.

#10.  Par 3.



From the tips it requires a long carry over water, from the other tees a less menacing shot:



View from just left of the green, which has three sections:



The back tier being visible in this pic:



#11.  Par 5.

Water is in play nearer the green.



Blue tees view:



Pretty wide fw that narrows slightly at a couple of points, with a slope big hitters can catch to then reach in two:



I had a little more in for my approach shot than desired (150 yards) to this toughest pin on the green:



From just over the green:



#12.  An uphill par 4.



Blue tees view:



This pic shows the uphill nature of the hole better:



From 75 yards out:



From left of the green:



From over the green:



More on Tuesday.  Which will include an island par 3.  

[Terry Lavin]

Looks like a fun, challenging and visually pleasant experience.  A little glitzy, a little fussy on the maintenance maybe, but that's to be expected, dontcha think?

[Joe Bausch]

Looks like a fun, challenging and visually pleasant experience.  A little glitzy, a little fussy on the maintenance maybe, but that's to be expected, dontcha think?

Conditioning is what you would expect for a high end club Terry.

[Joe Bausch]

#13.  A short par 4.



Blue tee view, where bigger hitters must be careful not to drive through the fairway.



Approach shot view:



From the end of the fw:



From the back of the green:



#14.  Par 3.



Blue tee view:



From the drop area (not like I had to use it... oh, those ripples are from a frog that jumped in):  



From the plank to the green:



#15.  Par 5.



Blue tee view:



Second shot view, where the green is over the hill to the left.



Your second shot must go far enough, preferably farther out to the right, to get a peak at the green:



Good third shot view:



From over the green:



We'll finish the tour tomorrow.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'm not a fan of the placement of a lot of the fairway bunkering.  I'm not sure what the goal was with many of the bunkers other than maybe to frame the hole?  I think a whole bunch of them could be removed.

Which ones ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Looks like a fun, challenging and visually pleasant experience.  A little glitzy, a little fussy on the maintenance maybe, but that's to be expected, dontcha think?

Conditioning is what you would expect for a high end club Terry.

Joe,

# 8, with its skyline green is one of my favorites.

As to conditioning, who doesn't want to play on firm, tight fairways ?

Conditioning is and remains an important element.

[Mark Saltzman]

I'm not a fan of the placement of a lot of the fairway bunkering.  I'm not sure what the goal was with many of the bunkers other than maybe to frame the hole?  I think a whole bunch of them could be removed.

Which ones ?

Patrick,

First I will say that I am going only based on the pictures and understand that the course may play differently than what I am saying, but...

1. I don't like the first bunker on the right on one.  If you cannot (or can just barely) reach the fairway and will have 225+ yards into a green protected by water, I do not believe one need by in a bunker.  Also, as a generality, I am not a big fan of bunkers on the outside of doglegs.  This sort-of fits that description.

2. Though there is no picture, I did not like the bunkers right of the 8th fairway.  The ideal line appears to be up the left and that side is protected by water.  Tee shots in the right rough will be forced to carry a fairway bunker to get back into position.  I believe rough alone, rather than bunkers would be sufficient, and I think that bunkers were used to make the tee shot look more interesting.

3. See point 1 re the first left bunker on 9.

4. See point 1 re the bunkers on 12.  For some reason these bunkers look especially unappealing to me.

5. See point 1 re first right bunker on 13.

I know I am going to be corrected... go ahead...

[Tom Fazio II]

Thank you for letting me log in. I have been following some of the posts and thought it would be ok to either explain some of the design concepts and/or answer any questions regarding the New Course. I do appreciate the comments good and bad and love the passion we all seem to have in common.
A brief background on myself, I obviously had nothing to do with picking my name and to make it worse was not given a middle name to clearly distinguish myself and my uncle. Growing up, working construction under a single Fazio design company did give me some similarities in the style and the way most of our courses are built. When deciding to go it alone I committed myself to Design/Build. So other than Irrigation and Cart Path the rest of constriction has been done "in-house" under my daily supervision with employees. The final sub grades and surfaces of all of the greens at Bedminster were done by myself and most of the shaping and contouring on the new course were bulldozed by me also. I say this just to let everyone know I only take 1 job at a time and have never had any employees. So I guess I have no one else to blame but realize that I was hired by an Owner who had specific ideas in mind.  The absolute first priority at Bedminster New was building a course worthy of hosting a major tournament. It was a wonderful experience working with some of the guys from the USGA, as "tournament set up" was being considered during construction, as the course was given the Boys and Girls Junior Championship prior to the commencement of construction.    

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom,

Thanks for participating.

How much did permitting constraints influence the design of the golf course ?

Some of the green to tee walks are lengthy, 13 to 14 as an example, was the routing, in terms of spacial relationships, hole to hole, influenced by the desire to host a major event, thereby necessitating more in the way of open areas to accomodate traffic, spectators and infrastructure for those events ?

[Richard Choi]

Tom, it is great to have you here and sharing your expertise.

I find your comment very interesting that your aim was to create a major tournament course. When I played it I was told by the starter and caddies that the New course was supposed to be an easier complimentary course to Old to give members (especially female members) some breather. In fact, the day I was there, they had a female member tournament on the New course.

I always found the former explanation interesting as to me, the features at the New course are more extreme than the Old course (more forced carries and water).

Do you believe the finished product is indeed "major-worthy"?

[Tom Fazio II]

Sorry if I get these reply wrong, I'm sure I will understand how this site works better in time.
Regarding the question about permitting and the design restrains...There was no consideration of a second 18 holes until after the original was well under construction, It was basically me talking DT into foregoing 25m worth of approved real estate for golf. All of the allotted environmental mitigation was used for the original 18. We saw a few pinch points on the original course in terms of getting galleries around and across protected areas. After some preliminary routing work I felt we had more space to move, and stage major event items. For example, approximately 150' width by just under 1 mile, was left natural along 6,18,10 &11 to stage corporate tents. However, I hear you about some of the walks and looked at many options. Believe it or not I have measured a walking path on both courses and the New course is longer by 580'- (old course = 30,070lf ) (new course 29,720 lf) not including the walk from 18 green to clubhouse which is 930 lf.
As for the second posted question, my task was to make it easier from the forward tees and harder from the back. And do I think its "Major worthy" the design and strategy from the Tournament Tee was the Design criteria priority.  I think this course will only reveal itself when and if that happens. I am happy to explain hole by hole what they are but there is tons of thought and explanation for each hole. I will be happy to do, if interested.   

[Joe Bausch]

Thanks for coming on Tom.

I would love to hear your thoughts on the 1st hole.  That is quite a bruiser coming right off the bat!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom,

Thanks for your reply.

I think everyone would be interested to hear you describe, in detail, how each hole and the collectivization of holes came into being.

While you reference the "championship/tournament" tees as being the focal point of the design, even in classic, "golden age" courses, weren't their back tees the focal point of the design ?

[Joe Bausch]

Tom is having some laptop issues.  He'll rejoin the discussion after the Geek Squad pays a visit to his cranky PC.

[Joe Bausch]

Time to finish up the pics on the new course today.

#16. Downhill par 4.  I can't quite pinpoint why, but I like the way this hole looks.



Blue tee view:



Another generous fw in terms of width:



Many will prefer being left in the fw for the approach into the diagonally situated green:



From just short of the green:



#17.  Par 4.  This might be my favorite two-shotter on the course.  Before that big left fw bunker the land slopes hard to the right.  Your better player will try to carry over the middle this bunker to higher ground for a short, flatter lie, to a green that isn't super receptive to shots.



Blue tee view:



From 100 yards out, middle of the fw:



From left of the green (tough pin to get at today as the front part of the green slopes to the back):



From over the green:



#18.  Par 4.  Water in play off the drive left, but not really visible on the tee.



Blue tee view:



Best tee shot is a bit farther right in the fw than this approach shot view from the middle:



From short of the multi-tiered green:



From right of the green:



From over the green:



I look forward to when TFaz II rejoins us to discuss the New course more.

[Tom Fazio II]

Wow, major laptop issue, I had hole 1 description done last night and about to post when my video card crashed.
HOLE 1;  I will be the first to admit hole 1 seems more like a finishing hole. However, we wanted to come out strong and we thought it was a great playoff hole as this 3 hole loop worked well (Hole 1 long par 4, Hole 2 medium length downhill par 3, and Hole 3 short (drivable) par 4).  Like most of the course the design criteria priority is from the back tee. The tee shot is level and approach is downhill. The offset staggered bunkers give the option to hit: between the 2 bunkers, carry the 260 yd right bunker (which gives you a better angle into the green), or carry the 290 yd bunker on the left which probably runs down the slope at least 50 yds leaving about 140 yd. Like many holes out here, Jim Herman who is currently playing on the PGA Tour was my shot tester. We thought having the bunker right at 260 would keep you honest if trying to sling one down the right. At the green we took the Bent up high on the hill to allow one to play away from the native area right of the green.
From the middle of the Blue tee (which I wish was 10 yds shorter) to carry the left bunker is only 240 yds but what is weird is how long it plays, we have added extra drainage and heavy sand topdressing to firm it up but still it plays long.

[Tom Fazio II]

I want to say that I truly love playing holes that are fashioned after classic holes like Alps, Biarritz, Cape, Eden, Redan etc. but I tend to stay away from designing holes that are obvious comparisons. I prefer a hole not to be thought of as one of these.  However all of the above holes mentioned have some similarities to some of the holes on the new course. For example; 2- Redan, 3- cape + drivable par 4, 5-green Biarritz, 6- eden , 15- alps. And I would be happy to concede if anyone disagrees with these comparisons. 
HOLE 2; a mid-length par 3, downhill , pond on left, with a right to left green sloping from front to back. The approach allows a ball to feed to a trough in the green that gets you to the left side of green without going over water. (I guess this does sound like Redan) The left pin side of the green is around 15 paces deep and green has 3 clear quadrants.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tom,

You certainly succeeded in coming out strong.

# 1 is a very challenging starting hole and a terrific hole to resolve matches that go into extra holes.
The use of the leftside hill next to the green is pretty unique.

I'm also very fond of # 3

[Tom Fazio II]

HOLE 3: From the back tee to the front edge of the green is 332yds. To carry the bunker is 275 yds with flat contouring to the front edge of the green. If the hole was 20 yds shorter I would have added a bunker about 10 yds short of the green but because of it being just a hair long I thought it should just be about the 275 yd carry. The shaved green side slope is kind of a cool feature. The bunker left is the same distance the green is from the tee, the thinking was, if you have the distance to reach the bunker you should go for the green. The fairway is extra wide left, away from the green, giving one as much room as you want making the hole longer. I think if we have a tournament and they want to play it up we will add the bunker.

[Tom Fazio II]

HOLE 5: My favorite hole on the course. It may be because of its similarities to 5 on the Old course, (same direction of play, par 4, dogleg left and uphill) that I wanted this to be one of the hardest holes on the New. The length is much shorter than 5 Old which is considered by many as one of the toughest holes on the Old. What I love about this hole is its many options and risk/reward with the design of a single ridge in the fairway and the green. The ridge I’m talking about starts on the left side of the fairway just over the left bunker 275yds from the back tee. It works away from the tee, right, to the far right bunker around 305 yd. Hit it on the ridge and your 10’ higher in elevation and have a much shorter and better view of the green and surface. You need to flirt with the left bunker if your distancely challenged (I know- made up word). The farther you can hit it the more right you want to be for a better angle into the green. But if you give up on the shot the same slope will feed your ball right at a lower elevation and make the hole play longer. The green is most of the controversy.  It plays a little like Biarritz but doesn’t have the clearly recognizable 3 tiers. The entire front of the green has a false side, mostly for depth perception and to expose the back tier. Below that is rough high bluegrass, if it was shaved the ball could would go down a 20’ high bank. You will find bent fairway long and right of the green as bailout. If the green wasn’t this difficult it wouldn’t warrant the risk on the drive. This hole has statistically one of the highest stroke averages in tournaments but is not for member play.  Handicapping this hole has been controversial. Higher handicap members don’t make big numbers here but it’s proven to be difficult for the pro’s.         

[paul cowley]

Hey Tommy...great to see you onboard! It's been a while since our buddy in Charlotte. 

[Joe Bausch]

My entire photo album for the course is here if you wish 1400 pixels wide pics:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/trumpbedminsternew/

Or here at MyPhillyGolf.com for less wide versions:

http://myphillygolf.com/uploads/bausch/TrumpBed/index.html

[Tom Fazio II]

HOLE 6: This hole has some similarities to Eden from the back tee. The photos shown were taken from the forward tees which is left of the back tee and separated by a local dirt road. What I like most about this hole is the "running up" approach and how the approach contouring can affect the shot decision. At 270, slightly downhill, it’s in between a driver and 3 wood for most touring pros. The approach is around 83’ wide with the contouring on the left half steeper to slow down a driver hit into it and a longer slope on the right half for the 3 wood. There is also a fairway bunker that is a 210 yd carry from the back with 40 yds of fairway to play with. The contours on this green are pretty random and getting on the correct quadrant is up to luck. But could you really ask someone to hit a 270 yd shot to a section of a green?   

[Joe Bausch]

HOLE 5: My favorite hole on the course. It may be because of its similarities to 5 on the Old course, (same direction of play, par 4, dogleg left and uphill) that I wanted this to be one of the hardest holes on the New. The length is much shorter than 5 Old which is considered by many as one of the toughest holes on the Old. What I love about this hole is its many options and risk/reward with the design of a single ridge in the fairway and the green. The ridge I’m talking about starts on the left side of the fairway just over the left bunker 275yds from the back tee. It works away from the tee, right, to the far right bunker around 305 yd. Hit it on the ridge and your 10’ higher in elevation and have a much shorter and better view of the green and surface. You need to flirt with the left bunker if your distancely challenged (I know- made up word). The farther you can hit it the more right you want to be for a better angle into the green. But if you give up on the shot the same slope will feed your ball right at a lower elevation and make the hole play longer. The green is most of the controversy.  It plays a little like Biarritz but doesn’t have the clearly recognizable 3 tiers. The entire front of the green has a false side, mostly for depth perception and to expose the back tier. Below that is rough high bluegrass, if it was shaved the ball could would go down a 20’ high bank. You will find bent fairway long and right of the green as bailout. If the green wasn’t this difficult it wouldn’t warrant the risk on the drive. This hole has statistically one of the highest stroke averages in tournaments but is not for member play.  Handicapping this hole has been controversial. Higher handicap members don’t make big numbers here but it’s proven to be difficult for the pro’s.         

Thanks for a detailed description of this hole that really got my attention.  I'm assuming higher handicap players simply swallow their pride and play it as a three shot hole, and/or higher handicap players frequently slice the ball and if they go for the green on their 2nd they are fortunate to leave a pitch shot using the length of the green?

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