[Tom_Doak]

Kyle:

We COULD rent out Pebble Beach!

If we did it in the winter when there were fewer tee times, it would only cost $495 green fee x a foursome = $1980 times six foursomes an hour = $11,880 times maybe six hours of tee times a day -- around $75,000 for a short winter's day !

[Tim Gavrich]

How cool would #8 at Yale be from a 290 yard tee?! Such a tee would need to be built, but it would be a heck of a shot and would bring the crazy bunkers by the green straight into play.

[Sean_A]

I am not sure how Foxy would be just as good as a short par 4.  The current drive is one of the highlights of the course.  The best long 4s are often as much about the drive as they are about the green and approach.  Same opinion for TOC's 17th.  No way that hole is just as good as a short par 4. 

Ciao

[BCrosby]

Jason,

If Pebble Beach was built today, I would imagine most designers would use the second shot at #8 as a par 3 and #7 might not exist. I could alsop see them putting the tees for #8 somewhere around the 6th green.

Interesting about doing away with the 7th at PB. That was one of Fowler's recommendation in 1924(?). He wanted to replace the current 7th (which he thought no skilled architect would have designed) with a par 3 across the cove at the end of the current 10th green and move the 11th tee over there. (That might improve the 11th.) Among his other ideas was converting the then par 4 18th to the current great hole, so he at least had that going on.

Other long par 4's that would be great short 4's are the 5th and 11th at ANGC. The 11th was designed by MacK to be a short par 4. Not that that carries any weight these day.

Bob

 

[Tom_Doak]

I am not sure how Foxy would be just as good as a short par 4.  The current drive is one of the highlights of the course.  The best long 4s are often as much about the drive as they are about the green and approach.  Same opinion for TOC's 17th.  No way that hole is just as good as a short par 4. 

Sean:

The title of the thread is "Great long par 4's that would also be great short ones."

I agree with you that Foxy wouldn't be better -- the drive is actually similar to the drive on #15 at Kingsley, without trees of course.  But, it's a better second shot because if you can't get one to run up the bank you are better off playing out to the left so you can pitch up the long axis of the green ... and that would be the makings of a very good short par-4, too, don't you think?

[Sean_A]

Tom

Granted, Foxt and The Road Hole (especially tbhis one) could be made into very fine short par 4s, but I don't see the sense in talking about the sacrifice of a great long 4 which are very hard to come by.  On that same note and just to be difficult (as you often are) in going against my own grain, I came across a superb example of a long 4 which could be played as a shortie.  Mind you, part of what makes it great is absolutely nothing need be done except skip a hole.  

Below is a picture of the 16th green at Seascale from the 15th tee.  It plays about 300 yards.  If we skip the 15th (a good hole though) and the drive on the GREAT long 16th we can continue the run home this way.  The hole looks so natural in how it should come that we actually had a chap hit a shot to this green by mistake.  


Ciao

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()