[mike_malone]

 The Seniors are tearing up a course today that the commentators say has been watered because of the heat. Now that's "easy" in my mind. This morning a long time member of my club argued that the addition of bunkers had made "weak" holes harder. I say make those bunker areas hard fairways running into deep rough and that would be hard.

  If we accept the argument that adding hazards makes courses harder then we should just make every course look like Whistling Straits or as another member and past poster on here says "put trees across the fairways; that would be hard".

   Another reason why hard conditions are my preference over hazards is that they affect every golfer while hazards affect only a few.

[Brent Hutto]

I've never seen a course that would play easier when very soft than when firm. Unless I want to play a 5,200 yard course, the biggest easy/hard factor is length. When my tee shots plug in the fairway instead of rolling out 10, 15, 20 yards that is usually the difference between an approach shot with an iron versus an approach shot that may not get there with a 5-wood. When my approch shots plug if they are on inch short of the green in the fringe verss having at least a chance of bouncing onto the green when they last 3-4 yards shot, that means an extra club on the approach and makes me land the ball on the green even if there's a chance of going over the green into trouble. And when I do have to lay up well short of a green, a wedge shot from a squishy tight lie is approxiately 10x as likely to be flubbed as the same shot from a dry and firm, tight lie.

No, give me firm. Up to a pretty extreme level the firmer the better. I'll take my chances with a ball rolling into trouble thank you very much. At least my good tee shots will leave me hitting irons into greens. And if I roll 30 yards and into the deep rough that may mean missing the green or laying up...but so does being 205 yards out in the fairway after a dead-solid driver off the tee.

Players with length to spare like soft conditions. Mostly because they like soft greens. Players who are chronically short of length like firm conditions.

[Steve Kline]

But Brent, firmer is the one condition that makes things harder or the good golfer. Virtually every other hazard makes things harder for the bogey golfer and is of little consequence to the good golfer. When a good golfer knows his ball is going to stop wherever it lands the ame gets s lot easier than when he has to factor in 20 or more yards of roll.

[Tom_Doak]

To Brent's point, Royal Melbourne has just installed a new grassing scheme where the fairways are kind of fuzzy to reduce roll off the tee, but then the approaches are fescue so they can be kept as firm as the greens.

The intent was to make the course harder for good players by limiting roll-out of drives, especially on their hillier fairways ... and this has been successful to some extent.  But, the by-product of that is that the course is now MUCH longer for seniors and women.  It's a tough balance to achieve.

By contrast, I often hear from women golfers that they've shot career-best rounds at Pacific Dunes, because the fairways give them much more roll than parkland courses at home, and they are straight enough to steer clear of the most penal hazards.  Certainly, that's in line with what Steve was saying.

[Mike_Young]

My supt father was in the playoff today on this soft course........James Mason...he lost to Weibe on the thrid hole of sudden death...

[Mike McGuire]

There is no condition that favors the weaker player over the stronger player.

[Ken Moum]

There is no condition that favors the weaker player over the stronger player.

True, especially if you're talking about players of significantly different handicaps.

But on a really fast golf course, a longer hitter, but one within a stroke or two of my index, I have a chance.

On a soft course, he'll take my lunch money virtually every time.

K

[Brent Hutto]

Tom put his finger on it. Firm conditions favor not so much the short player but the short-and-straight player. Like a lot of the ladies I've played with.

At my previous club I played a few rounds with one of the lady members who hated the very, very short "Ladies Tees" but always played them in her social games. She and I would meet at the "Seniors Tees" which was a more challenging length for her and a bit of a treat for me.

Overall she was about 15 strokes lower handicap than me but with me playing up and she playing back I at least had a chance in theory. And when the course (which was clay-based) was wet I could keep up with her off the tee and then she had to use a slightly longer club than me on approaches. But a couple times we played when the course was dry and firm and it was no contest. She would hit every single fairway, generally choosing which half the fairway she wanted to hit. The extra roll let her outdrive me and about every third tee shot of mine would bounce and roll off into the woods.

She'd beat me by a stroke a hole, probably. On a wet course I could give her a fair match and at least hold out until the last few holes before losing. 

[Adam Clayman]

Soft is a joke unless it rained. Mike is right. Easy is the new mindset, but like political brainwashing, trying to convince the afflicted of their plight, is nearly impossible.

[mike_malone]

 I'm not seeing this as a competitive issue. I'm suggesting that for all golfers ( except for those short and straight ones ) courses play easier to score on when soft. I also think it lessens the architecture. The best example is holes designed as runup approaches that can be approached aerially when soft. The features and randomness are eliminated.

[Brent Hutto]

I'll certainly buy the argument universally as it pertains to greens. Soft green are easier than hard greens, no question, hands down.

[mike_malone]

 Firm fairways require some movement or angling to be a concern.

[Brent Hutto]

Or my favorite element that everyone else seems to hate...the odd "reverse camber" fairway here or there. Dogleg left with a bit of slope to the right. Nothing extreme needed, you've just either got to make the ball curve (not me!) or pick your spot very carefully. Doesn't work at all when the fairways are really soft but any firmness at all and it makes a very hard tee shot.

I especially like the case where you have a level-ish fairway out to somewhere around the turn point and then once you're around the bend the "reverse camber" is actually almost a pitch of the fairway away from the tee. So you can land back near the turn point and have plenty of fairway to run into. But it you fly it past the turn and land in the cambered part it will kick sideways/forward and through the second leg of the fairway. Or you can curve the ball and make the aggressive shot work.

The only examples I can recall seeing are a course nobody has ever heard of near where I live. But it's a cool feature that does require firmness.

[Niall C]

To Brent's point, Royal Melbourne has just installed a new grassing scheme where the fairways are kind of fuzzy to reduce roll off the tee, but then the approaches are fescue so they can be kept as firm as the greens.

The intent was to make the course harder for good players by limiting roll-out of drives, especially on their hillier fairways ... and this has been successful to some extent.  But, the by-product of that is that the course is now MUCH longer for seniors and women.  It's a tough balance to achieve.

By contrast, I often hear from women golfers that they've shot career-best rounds at Pacific Dunes, because the fairways give them much more roll than parkland courses at home, and they are straight enough to steer clear of the most penal hazards.  Certainly, that's in line with what Steve was saying.

Tom

Interested to hear more about this grassing scheme. The Scottish Open is about to be played on Castle Stuart and my experience playing it last year was similar to how you described R Melbourne, ie. less than roll than anticipated. This mean't not only less roll going forward but also mean't the ball didn't take the contours I was expecting. I couldn't make up my m mind if that was a conditioning issue ie length of the grass, or whether it was the type of grass but it certainly didn't play like older links.

Thoughts ?

Niall

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