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Larry_Keltto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sand Hills prevails
« on: October 19, 2003, 12:01:39 PM »
In the past four weeks, I had the good fortune of being able to play Sand Hills (5 rounds), Prestwick (1), Troon (1), Turnberry-Ailsa (2), County Down (2), and Portrush-Dunluce (2). I also played Glasgow Gailes, Ardglass, Portstewart and Castlerock.

(My big disappointment was not playing Western Gailes. My plane was late into Glasgow, and when I got to WG, it was 2:30 Sunday and the tee was backed up with two busloads of Americans. (I had arranged to go off in front of all fourballs.) So, I played at the Glasgow Gailes instead. Western was closed the rest of the week for winter maintenance.)

I played Sand Hills in mid-September and thought it was nearly perfect (too bad the short par 4s fall back-to-back, but that's nit-picking, I guess). Before leaving for the UK, I told friends I'd be thrilled if the courses I was playing there turned out to be better.

The top courses I played in the UK were close in quality, but not better, in my opinion. That left me feeling a bit disappointed, but I think it speaks to Sand Hills' greatness.

After finishing my UK trip, my opinion was that Sand Hills, County Down and Portrush were the stand-outs and quite close to each other, based purely on the quality of the golf holes. So, I took each course and ranked each courses's par 4s, 3s and 5s from top to bottom. Then I took those holes and matched them against the other courses, one on one.

The results:

Sand Hills 11, County Down 5 (two draws)
Sand Hills 11, Portrush 7
Portrush 9, County Down 8 (one draw)

It might seem outrageous to say County Down loses twice in this competition, but its weaknesses should come as no surprise to anyone here: holes 14-17, and its par 3s. Granted County Down's fourth hole is incredible, but think about the par 3s at Sand Hills! And Sand Hills also sweeps the par 5s against County Down, IMHO.

After playing Sand Hills, the legendary bunkering at County Down didn't blow my mind. It's great, but not on the same enormous scale as Sand Hills.

A couple other observations about Sand Hills, in the context of these courses:

1. Its greens complexes are superior to anything I saw. In my opinion, the gap was large. The word genius is overused, but it has to be used when describing what CC did with those greens.

2. No course on this list has a finish that comes even close to Sand Hills for quality and drama. Turnberry's 16th and 17th are great, but 18 is a letdown. If County Down had Sand Hills' 16-18 finish, it would be amazing.

3. My big problem with Sand Hills is the huge percentage of players who use carts. I was disappointed with that.

In regards to comparing Portrush to County Down, I give Portrush a slight edge, but if I were to do this again in a week, County Down perhaps gets the nod.

Having made these comparisons, I should add a disclaimer: these are all great golf courses, and it's a shame I feel compelled to rank them. Oh well. And certainly many think County Down is the best of these three. That's great.

I truly would like to hear the argument, though, for how County Down is better than Sand Hills (Golf magazine's raters, of course, say it is). I don't see it, and I'm wondering if I'm overlooking something.

I also should add that Sand Hills perhaps "wins" with me because I played it more times than the others.

A few other observations from my last month of golf:

1. Turnberry doesn't have the number of quality holes of my Big Three, but I probably enjoyed the entire experience at Turnberry more than any other. When you combine a great golf course, great championship history, superb practice facilities, and the setting with, yes, American-style customer service, it's quite a combination. The lockerroom guy at Turnberry is a gem.

2. Troon truly is a slog. "Everybody" says/writes that, and I was convinced "everybody" was going to be wrong, but it's true. Except for the six holes in the middle, there's nothing memorable. Prestwick was much more fun to play.

3. I was expecting the Prestwick course to be a museum piece (not much of a challenge). I was pleasantly surprised.

4. Portrush was a joy to play. I think it was James Finegan who wrote that Portrush's fourth hole is the best hole on the planet that nobody ever talks about. Hard to disagree.

5. Best-rolling greens: Portrush. Talk about true-rolling!

6. I was prepared to fall in love with Portstewart, but I didn't. I think the dunes on the front nine are too huge and severe and just don't lend themselves to great golf holes. The course played soft, and the greens were slow.

7. I was pleasantly surprised by Castlerock. No. 7 is kind of a poor man's version of Turnberry's 16th, and Castlerock's stretch of 7-10 was very satisfying. I loved 8 and 9. I wish I would have played Castlerock's nine-hole course. It looked like fun. And apprently there's a hole on the nine-hole course that some rate as one of the top 18 holes in Ireland/ N. Ireland.

8. The locals at Portrush say Darren Clarke usually plays the Valley course instead of Dunluce. Clarke thinks the small greens on the Valley help him stay sharp with his irons.

9. What's the deal with the caravan parks (mobile home parks) seemingly being always on the boundary of these great golf courses in the UK?! I never see that in the photos! (Maybe I'll buy a caravan in the park behind the 14th at County Down!)

10. Ardglass has muni-quality maintenance, but it's a fun place to play. It's a good option if you're looking for another course to play on the same day as County Down. And Ardglass's views of the sea are amazing. The new 11th hole is pretty good, and the tee shot at no. 2 requires courage.

11. I'm glad I didn't land in the bunkers surrounding the Postage Stamp. The two guys I was playing with did, and they never got out. Both were pretty decent players from the sand, too. The Coffin is scary.

Having played these courses, I'm left with this question: is there a large gap between Golf magazine's top nine (Pine Valley, Cypress, Muirfield, Shinnecock, Augusta, Pebble, Melbourne, Pinehurst No. 2) and County Down, Sand Hills, and Portrush, which come in at 10-12?


Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2003, 06:49:07 PM »
Larry, Forget about the comparisons with magazine rankings and concentrate on the individuality, uniqueness and emotional affect each course had on you.  

  3. I was expecting the Prestwick course to be a museum piece (not much of a challenge). I was pleasantly surprised.

Your #3 was exactly what I thought and I assumed I'd be driving off the tees with my five wood.  Reality comes in with the wind and some narrow fairways, blind greens over dunes and tall rough and gorse and, arrgh.  What a challenge that place is.  And what memories!

"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

bg_in_rtp

Re:Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2003, 07:49:19 PM »
Larry,

I've never played Sand Hills, but I have played most of the others that you listed, so I'll throw out some feedback on your comments and my take on how your list compares to the "experts".  My list would be as follows:

1) Royal County Down (I'm hoping there are no laws preventing my ashes from being scattered there).
2) Prestwick
3) Turnberry
4) Royal Portrush
5) Royal Troon
6) Portstewart

The beauty of this obsessive game is that opinions vary and we can each find pleasure in differing challenges.  For me, I enjoy the game when the course provides a variety of shots and the club allows the chance to fully enjoy the day (from arrival to departure).

While I can appreciate those that frown on the last few holes at RCD (personally:  I abhor the pond in the middle of 17), RCD provides an abundance of variety of shots.   You must be able to drive it long & straight on #1, #9, #12, #15.  You must be able to hit a cut on #5, #8 and #13.  You have a number of blinds shots and the decisions off #3 and #16 tee.  I randomly got paired with two women that played on the Curtis Cup team, one which worked as a RCD caddy and one that worked as a civil engineer on the local roads (why can't she make them wider!!).  It created a nice appreciation that a high level of golf can be played by people that didn't grow up in the Leadbetter Academy.  

Prestwick also falls into the category of "variety of shots" for me.  Long & Short Par4s, blind shots over dunes, true putting surfaces, and narrow fairways that require accuracy.  I was randomly paired with the Captain of Prestwick on a day when we were the only two on the course.  So the course was enjoyable, but the overall day was unbelievable due to the friendship and history that my playing partner showered me with during the day.  There is nothing better than lunch at the big dining table and cigars and kummel in the Smoking Room overlooking the course.  As they state in "Legendary Golf Clubs of Scotland, England, Wales & Ireland" (de St.Jorre, Edgwworth), Prestwick is "A Day's Fun".

Turnberry and Portrush are very close in my ranking, but I give the edge to Turnberry because of the ability to play the course with a golf-ball-finding caddy or dog.  Both courses have tremendous scenery (although I think Turnberry is better) and both require you to drive the ball long and accurate.  I have no opposition to blind tee-shots, but I struggled with the length of rough at Portrush on holes where you can't see the ball come to rest.  So my opinion is skewed because of the number of times I spent looking for balls that were no more than 2-3 feet off the edge of the fairway .  I do think that Portrush is more challenging than Turnberry.  #4 at Portrush has got to be one of the Top5 underappreciated holes in the world.  I also thought the membership, ProShop and clubhouse atmosphere at Portrush was superior to Turnberry, but I'm biased to Turnberry because I got engaged on the front steps of the hotel and my wife says it's ok for us to return there at any time, with no questions asked  ;D

I enjoyed the dunes at Portstewart, but I was disappointed with the back nine.  The only hole I thought the dunes were too severe was the 8th.  I especially like the ways the dunes come into play on #2, #4, #5 and #7.


Jason Hines

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2003, 08:54:44 PM »
Larry,

I have been to the UK, but never for pleasure.  Is it fair to compare playing conditions or specifically course conditions?  I have however played Sandhills and I was wondering how U.S. technology or agronomy compared to the more natural, “original” Scottish links courses.  I.E. uniformity of green conditions, rough etc.

Jason.

I.E. I personally think a little brown in the fairways is fine.

Doug Siebert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2003, 11:07:17 PM »
 3. I was expecting the Prestwick course to be a museum piece (not much of a challenge). I was pleasantly surprised.

Your #3 was exactly what I thought and I assumed I'd be driving off the tees with my five wood.  Reality comes in with the wind and some narrow fairways, blind greens over dunes and tall rough and gorse and, arrgh.  What a challenge that place is.  And what memories!


I laugh at people who think Prestwick will be a pushover.  It may belong in a museum but its tougher than most of the courses on the Open rota today.  There just isn't any place for the gallery.  Last time I was there I shot 102, sandwiched between a pair of 76s, at Turnberry the day before Prestwick, and North Berwick the day after.  The wind wasn't as strong at Turnberry, but it was blowing at least 15-20 mph.  You can play Turnberry in the wind.  You can't play Prestwick in the wind.  At least I haven't figured out how, since I shot 95 the other time I was there.
My hovercraft is full of eels.

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2003, 09:56:29 AM »
Thanks for very few of us get to play Sand Hills, then go straight to the best of the UK.

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2010, 01:21:49 PM »
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..." 
                                            TOM DOAK   November 6th, 2010



    This isn't news to many of us. Along with several other courses, it is as good as golf gets.
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2010, 01:37:55 PM »
Gene: Where is that quote from?  I would like the next sentence to be:  Ballyneal is _____________

Mike Cirba

Re: Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2010, 01:41:08 PM »
Gene,

It's taken you a long time to replace my quote on your posts, but that's as good as any and at least most people here know who Tom Doak is.   ;)  ;D

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2010, 02:06:50 PM »
Jerry:

    The quote is from the Pine Valley thread started by Brett M. a few days ago and is the 48th response. 
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Sand Hills prevails
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2010, 02:12:41 PM »
Gene,

It's taken you a long time to replace my quote on your posts, but that's as good as any and at least most people here know who Tom Doak is.   ;)  ;D


Yes, Mike, that quote was there for 8 years!

But it was a terrific one and I thank you for it.
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

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