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Peter Sayegh

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Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« on: April 06, 2009, 11:51:42 AM »
Excerpt from yesterday's Greenville (SC) News:

Unless, maybe, it was the scary thought that occurred to Jim Anthony a few months ago when he was at work with business partner Tiger Woods at the site of High Carolina, the eighth and last golf course in The Cliffs Communities developments near Asheville, N.C.

"He's walked that course more than any designer we've ever had at this stage of construction," Anthony, president of The Cliffs Communities, said of Woods. "We had 17 holes with Southern exposure except for No. 9, it stayed frozen longer than any other. We talked to Tiger about it and he said, 'We gotta re-route it.' "

Woods, the 14-time majors champion makes his return to Augusta National this week for the 2009 Masters less than two weeks after winning at Bay Hill in Orlando, Fla. That victory, his 66th on the Professional Golfers' Association Tour, signaled his full competitive return from knee surgery last June.

Up at High Carolina that day, Anthony couldn't help thinking about the publicity that would be generated had Woods made a misstep on the property where his first golf course in the United States will be under construction later this year.

"He came up there with his knee injury when most people would have just said, 'Hey team, go make it work,' " Anthony said. "He wanted to see (the ninth hole) himself, get a good look.

"It scared me to death," Anthony said. "He's up there walking on rocks, checking it out, climbing around and all I could see was a news headline, 'Tiger re-injures knee working on course.' He was careful, he was smart about it.

"He does things other people wouldn't do. He's amazing."

Woods and Anthony, the 65 year-old Upstate developer, have proven to be a good, if unlikely match. You might not expect paths to merge so successfully for a Stanford-educated, West Coast son of a Green Beret veteran and a high school-educated South Carolinian son of a factory worker, but there's clearly a bond with these two.

For Woods, it was all laid out in the painstaking mentoring he received from his father Earl, who passed away in May of 2006, and his mother, Kultida. He began playing golf at an early age and you could say he took to it rather well, almost as though his quest to overtake Jack Nicklaus and his record 18 major victories was planned all along.

"When he was 12 he could whip a lot of 18-year olds but his father wouldn't let him play those guys," Anthony said. "As a result, he was expected to win every time he went out, so his life has been imprinted with that expectation.

"His dad and mom did an incredible job with him, like (a) textbook on how to raise a champion," he said. "He was born with those genes."

Anthony came to this partnership from a different direction. He was a telephone repairman for Southern Bell after high school when his uncle in Charlotte made him a proposition.

"He offered me a chance to buy some property, 100 acres at $200 an acre and we sold it for $600 an acre," Anthony said. "That would have been in about 1963 and it gave me the idea that 'this might be even better than climbing telephone poles all day.'

"I found the next tract in Pickens County, we went in on that," Anthony said, "then we bought a big chunk - 600 acres - and that's actually where I live today."

Anthony is a life-long outdoorsman. He said he has jogged three days a week, "my whole life," and retains a passion for fishing, quail hunting and other outdoor activities. The seven Cliffs Communities golf courses have brought him in contact with Jack Nicklaus, Gary Player and other golf icons, but High Carolina was a special piece of property he envisioned for only one person.

"We purchased the property at High Carolina and I just believed that this needed to be a piece of land for him to build a golf course," Anthony said. "There was never going to be another piece of land like this at 4,000 feet with 50-mile views and Southern exposure. We contacted his organization and arranged a meeting. If Tiger wasn't going to be interested, we weren't going to build a golf course there."

Woods was interested.

"What impresses me about Tiger is what comes out of his mouth is what's on his mind - what he says comes from his heart," Anthony said. "Some folks, if they were trying to make a deal, they might say, 'This is OK, it might have possibilities,' but not him. He saw it and he lit up, he said, 'What a great piece of land,' his enthusiasm and passion came though immediately."

Anthony said site planning and permitting is progressing at the site and construction should begin before the end of the year. It is expected to open in the fall of 2011.


Mike Sweeney

Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2010, 08:09:21 AM »
I would be interested if anyone knows the details of what happened here:

http://www.golfweek.com/news/2010/sep/23/tiger-woods-course-develepment-settlement-golf/

The agreement also calls for increase protection of other area streams. The environmental groups agreed to drop their challenge to the Cliffs’ permits.

In the comments section, someone from a fishing protection group states:

Bryan MooreSep 23
Thanks to Tiger Woods and the developers to understand the importance of protecting our coldwater resources and the trout populations they support. We will continue to be vigilant as the development proceeds to insure these resources are fully preserved from any adverse impacts. This could prove to be a model for golf course construction into the future in sensitive areas.

And it resulted in this for the golf course:

Construction on Woods’ first American golf course, The Cliffs at High Carolina near Asheville, N.C., is back in full swing after developers agreed to reduce the planned impact the layout would have on area trout streams by almost half the original design.

Woods said in a statement Thursday that new routing makes the course a tad shorter and some of the walks between greens and tees a little longer, but does not take away from his intent to have a walkable, mountain course with breathtaking views.


In the cost/benefit ratio of life, it sounds like the golf course took a hit? Does anyone have any insight?

In a different life I was a salt water fisherman so I appreciate the concept but I am trying to understand what was really gained.


Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2010, 09:21:34 AM »
 8) Classic environmental blackmail.. its truly a blood sport, and he survived..

Bully for him!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2010, 09:44:24 AM »
Mike,
http://www.pitchengine.com/agreement-reduces-trout-stream-impacts-from-cliffs-mountain-golf-course/90515/

Steve,
Call it what you want, but if you want fish you need protection of these streams, and keeping headwaters clean leads to a better quality of water downstream.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2010, 10:21:19 AM »
 8) Jim, I'm all for clean (enter environmental media here, i.e., air, water, land), that's not the issue.  I've done environmental permitting across the US and participated in it around the world.   Its the issue that:

quote from press releases
The N.C. Department of Environment and Natural Resources will revise the water quality certification for the development to reflect the settlement agreement. The Cliffs also must obtain a revised Army Corps 404 permit to reflect the terms of the settlement.

The developers apparently followed the appropriate laws in filing their applications, which were approved by state and federal regulators per administrative code and regulatory frameworks and it was not enough,  as some folks then brought lawsuit...

and the developers had to sweeten the pot.. 

for 492 yards of stream out of the whole development's tributaries
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2010, 10:38:39 AM »
Steve,
What jumps out at me is the word 'apparently'. The SELC site seems to be saying that the development did not use the best plan to eliminate the amount of stream they were burying and they weren't doing enough off-site remediation to satisfy the legal requirements. The issues were worked out  amicably between the concerned parties.

That's not blackmail, that's how the system should work.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2010, 10:56:58 AM »
 8)  Jim,

Then the regulators should be held at fault for approving their plans in the first place or not auditting the work being completed and signing off on its acceptance under terms and conditions of the certificates and permits.

Would be nice to read what was actually filed with the court.
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2010, 11:33:44 AM »
Steve,

I wouldn't necessarily blame the regulators, it's likely that they followed their guidelines.

I recently witnessed what happens when a developer chooses head-butting over putting heads together. He lost.

The guy behind this project was smart.
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dave McCollum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2010, 01:12:14 PM »
I avoid political threads with a passion and have never built a golf course on my own (I do own and run one).  I have raised millions of pounds of trout and other fish species and, as part of the process, spent many years dealing with the EPA and other environmental regulatory agencies on all levels of government as well as the well-meaning opinions of a number of environmental organizations.  My personal experience reflects Steve Lang’s comments, although I think he was far too diplomatic and polite.  If Jim Kennedy really believes “that how the system should work” one can only hope that he does not have to subject this belief to any kind of real world reality test.  No offense intended, Jim, I’m just assuming you have never been involved with these regulatory agencies/environmental groups about environmental issues that directly affect your livelihood or business.   I think your perspective would change dramatically.  I know mine did. 

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Small piece on Tiger the GCA
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2010, 03:37:34 PM »
Dave,
Too polite? So what, should the conversation degrade into a pissing contest? .....and yes, I've dealt w/govt. agencies on the state and local level while in the construction business. I've been in the same business that you're in for the past 15 years.

In this case the owners were completely willing to work with the groups who were concerned about some of the issues. Everyone is walking away smiling and the project is going ahead without delays.

The guy(s) who owns this project is the smartest guy in the room.


p.s. I totally missed the politics of this thread, where did you see them?
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

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