[Cliff Hamm]

Perhaps the thread on dress codes is relevant here.  If clubs continue to be so "stuffy" the game will be fine but private golf?

[JC Jones]

You're on to something, Dave.

I know on the National Memberships thread that some joked "you can't calculate cost per round with a national membership."  Well, the fact of the matter is, 99.9% of people are going to assess ANY membership on a cost per round basis.  Offering half-memberships for every/other week usage is probably more in line with people's realistic abilities to get away and play golf and also do so at a reasonable price.

We cannot use this site as a barometer for what can make a sustainable club.  We here are passionate dorks who will pay more money than most to be a member of a club for all of what that brings beyond just a round of golf.  The rest of the population, however, will be calculating things on a cost/round basis. 

[John Foley]

Dave,

How do you sell it?

What if don't get the weeks w/ your friends or the weather turns crappy and all of a sudden your week is great. Won't that frustrate the heck out if you?

I like the concept and there is some meat, I just would worry about the backlash from the "I paid full freight" members. You KNOW thats comming. (Let alone we can't use the pool this week when it's sunny & 90 it's was our's last week when it was raining and 70!!)

I have been looking at membership options for years and given work / familly / sports / etc.. commitments - nothing ever makes sense.

They just built a new 9 hole private course a mile from my house & they are putting in a pool also. We jumped on a social membership. $'s are ridiculously low. I get 4 rounds a month + get to play in the Thursday night mens league w/ some friends / neighbors who joined.

Not one private course in the area has that kind of deal.

Filling up the membership with

[Rick Shefchik]

Our club offers low-cost junior memberships to the local kids whose parents aren't members. We also give free access to the high school golf team -- both boys and girls. I'm not sure how many other clubs do this, but I think it is almost imperative to keep fresh blood coming into the game.

What happens to kids after they turn 18 is another matter; economics often cause people in their 20s to drift away from the game. I did. But if the love of golf is implanted early, most of those juniors will find a way back.

[George Pazin]

Our club offers low-cost junior memberships to the local kids whose parents aren't members. We also give free access to the high school golf team -- both boys and girls. I'm not sure how many other clubs do this, but I think it is almost imperative to keep fresh blood coming into the game.

What happens to kids after they turn 18 is another matter; economics often cause people in their 20s to drift away from the game. I did. But if the love of golf is implanted early, most of those juniors will find a way back.

Rick, hasn't your club heard that 26 is the new cutoff age for adulthood?

-----

There are always wonderful stories out there. Everyone I've met on this site, and that number has to be 50-100, has been a terrific companion, whether for a round or just beers. And that is almost universally true for the characters I've met at my local muni, save a few.

The problem is, people tend to harp on the few bad eggs (the squeaky wheel gets the grease) and then generalize from there.

Damn, I hope 30 is still young, otherwise, where does that leave me?

[TEPaul]

"I think the game will be okay so long as the world doesn't blow up.  These threads confusing the business of golf with the game of golf don't make any sense to me."


Sean Arble:

What is it that confuses you about the business of golf and the game of golf?

Do you belong to a golf club? If so, it's not hard to see it's essentially a microcosim of the larger world of the business of golf and the game of golf.

[JNC Lyon]

Dave,

How do you sell it?

What if don't get the weeks w/ your friends or the weather turns crappy and all of a sudden your week is great. Won't that frustrate the heck out if you?

I like the concept and there is some meat, I just would worry about the backlash from the "I paid full freight" members. You KNOW thats comming. (Let alone we can't use the pool this week when it's sunny & 90 it's was our's last week when it was raining and 70!!)

I have been looking at membership options for years and given work / familly / sports / etc.. commitments - nothing ever makes sense.

They just built a new 9 hole private course a mile from my house & they are putting in a pool also. We jumped on a social membership. $'s are ridiculously low. I get 4 rounds a month + get to play in the Thursday night mens league w/ some friends / neighbors who joined.

Not one private course in the area has that kind of deal.

Filling up the membership with

John,
What do you think about the golf course at Champion Hills?  I would like to see it at some point this summer-we should definitely get a game.

You are right about private golf in the Rochester area—it is not affordable at the current prices.  I see myself living in the area after college, but I probably won’t join one of the private clubs, at least not right away.  Golf in Rochester is very affordable compared to other areas of the country, so I cannot even imagine how unreasonable it is to a member at a private club in other areas.  How do youngsters learn the game in a Metropolitan area?  Sure, there are municipal courses, but these layouts are overcrowded, slow, and in lousy condition.  They won’t be learning the same game that I know and love.

The U.S. model just isn’t sustainable at this point.  I have said this time and again after being in the UK this year.  I have been able to join one of the greatest clubs in the British Isles for less than I would pay for one round at Turning Stone’s Atunyote Golf Course.  The amount the game costs in the U.S. is simply insane.  Most of it comes down to how courses are run in the U.S.  The business of golf in the U.S. makes the game inaccessible to most.  That is how the ‘business’ and the ‘game’ of golf intersect.

[John Foley]

John,

Have walked Champion Hills a few times but have yet to play, looks good though. Not expecting alot, but I think I will be suprised.

Absolutley lets get a game this summer. Check your IM.

As for the area, why join a place when the publics are this good? Too crowded? Move your time around - I've played Ravewood on a Sat & Sun afternoon and practically had the place to myself.

I do realize that we are very spoiled here compared to big cities and there have been some very good deals out there (Irondiquoit had a recent one)., but the places here are trying. Everyplace has summer camp stuff to get kids interested, but it's a tough nut if the parents are not engaged. I started playing late in HS at the old VA course in Canandaigua when my Mom was a nurse. There needs to be more things like that around.

[Mike Cirba]

Call it politically correct all you want, but that doesn't alter the truth, nor does it change the demographics or the economics, or the political questions raised by those realities.

Golf will contract, or golf will expand...it will not stay the same.

If we think it's a viable long-term strategy that will be politically and economically feasible to use hundreds of acres on a resource-stressed planet for a smaller and smaller portion of the population in say 50 years, then I say that's very, very myopic.

[Sean_A]

"I think the game will be okay so long as the world doesn't blow up.  These threads confusing the business of golf with the game of golf don't make any sense to me."


Sean Arble:

What is it that confuses you about the business of golf and the game of golf?

Do you belong to a golf club? If so, it's not hard to see it's essentially a microcosim of the larger world of the business of golf and the game of golf.

Tom P

Not you too?  Golf is game and it will be fine regardless if those that hope to make money from the game prosper or not.  Its that simple and doesn't take an MBA to figure out.  Whether or not I am a member of a club has no bearing on the matter.

Ciao

[JNC Lyon]

"I think the game will be okay so long as the world doesn't blow up.  These threads confusing the business of golf with the game of golf don't make any sense to me."


Sean Arble:

What is it that confuses you about the business of golf and the game of golf?

Do you belong to a golf club? If so, it's not hard to see it's essentially a microcosim of the larger world of the business of golf and the game of golf.

Tom P

Not you too?  Golf is game and it will be fine regardless if those that hope to make money from the game prosper or not.  Its that simple and doesn't take an MBA to figure out.  Whether or not I am a member of a club has no bearing on the matter.

Ciao

Sean,

The problem comes when the business of golf interferes with the ability to access the game of golf--when the game becomes too expensive.

[Sean_A]

"I think the game will be okay so long as the world doesn't blow up.  These threads confusing the business of golf with the game of golf don't make any sense to me."


Sean Arble:

What is it that confuses you about the business of golf and the game of golf?

Do you belong to a golf club? If so, it's not hard to see it's essentially a microcosim of the larger world of the business of golf and the game of golf.

Tom P

Not you too?  Golf is game and it will be fine regardless if those that hope to make money from the game prosper or not.  Its that simple and doesn't take an MBA to figure out.  Whether or not I am a member of a club has no bearing on the matter.

Ciao

Sean,

The problem comes when the business of golf interferes with the ability to access the game of golf--when the game becomes too expensive.

JNC

I haven't noticed this problem in my lifetime anywhere I have lived with exception of Japan, but that is an entirely different kettle of fish.  Land prices were so high just finding a place to live was a priority.  In places like Germany, Thailand and Israel a relative dearth of courses wasn't a problem.  Indeed, I can recall play9ing "the game" plenty in places where a course didn't exist.  Where there is a will, there is a way.  The real problem with business impacting golf is that our ability to adjust is perhaps being tested.  In fact, I believe the game could actually prosper in this era of downsizing.

Ciao

[Patrick_Mucci]

Call it politically correct all you want, but that doesn't alter the truth, nor does it change the demographics or the economics, or the political questions raised by those realities.

Golf will contract, or golf will expand...it will not stay the same.

If we think it's a viable long-term strategy that will be politically and economically feasible to use hundreds of acres on a resource-stressed planet for a smaller and smaller portion of the population in say 50 years, then I say that's very, very myopic.

You appear to be advocating the seizure of golf courses/open spaces, private property, to accomodate the political and economic needs of an increasing population.

I don't know what they call that in your neck of the woods, but it ain't Eminant Domain.

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