Introduction and Portmarnock Question

[Tim Gallant]

     Hi GCAers, my name is Tim Gallant and I am a new member to the discussion boards here. Over the last few years, I have loved reading the course profiles and dialogues, and am excited to now be able to contribute.

Originally from the States, I now live in Edinburgh and play my golf at North Berwick West Links. I would love to meet some of you if you are across, so please drop me a PM if you are in the area.

As my first real post, I thought I would post a question that I am hoping hasn’t already been debated! I recently played Portmarnock, and really enjoyed the course. Before my round I had read the immortal words of Bernard Darwin (back almost 100 years ago) who said that the last 5 at Portmarnock was the best finish in the British Isles. Certainly 14, 15 and 18 are barnstormers, but is it still one of the best in the UK & Ireland? Others that sprung to mind (in no order) included: TOC, North Berwick (not biased J ) and Carnoustie. Thoughts?

 

[Michael Graham]

Welcome Tim,


I'm also in Edinburgh. Unlike you I'm born and bred. Apart from a brief sojourn living in Germany after university I've never left. I play my golf in the city at Mortonhall. My uncle is a member at Gullane so I get a chance play along the East Lothian coast as well.


We can hopefully get a game before winter properly descends.


Michael

[Ian Mackenzie]

Tim -


Since Portmarnock has three 9s (Blue, Red, Yellow), are you referring to the Blue/Red course? (First tee next to water?)
If so, I agree with you as "17" is a very plain, straightaway par 4 with an interesting green but it ends there. 18, OTOH, is a very cool closing hole.

[Niall C]

Tim


Welcome to the group. Good to see we have another "Scot" amongst us. We've being threatening a get together for a while but not yet pulled it off. Perhaps time to look at that in the new year.


With regards to your question I've not played Portmarnock therefore impossible to compare with other courses however if looking for courses with the best finish (I'd love to know how Darwin defined "best") then the courses you suggest would probably be in the mix. The only problem with Carnoustie is that I find that once I've played the first 13 I'm in no fit state to do the final holes justice ! I'd also throw in my old home course as well that being Moray Old which has a nice mix of short quirky par 4 (16th), good strong par 3 (15th), a good par 5 (17th) and good/great strong par 4's (14th & 18th).


Niall


ps. fellow posters Tony Muldoon and Simon Holt are also members at NB West

[Niall C]

Tim


Just tried to email you but not sure if it went. Perhaps you could let me know if you received it.


Niall

[Ed Tilley]

For a final 3 holes St.Enodoc will take some beating - 3 classic holes and par 5, 3 and 4 to boot. I'm playing there next week and can't wait!

Waterville also has a very strong final 3 holes with a par 3,4, and 5.

I'm not sure I'd describe Carnoustie's final 3 as the "best". It's certainly the hardest I've played.

[Mark Pearce]

The last 5 at Muirfield are a pretty good set.  16 is a bit similar to 4 and 7 but is a good hole considered on its own. 14 and 18 are pretty serious long par 4s, 15 an excellent shorter par 4 and 17 is one of a set of absolutely world class par 5s.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Regards Portmarnock, Tim mentions 14, 15 & 18 which are certainly the celebrated holes.
 
16 is my favourite par five on the course with a drive over a dune ridge to a set of cross bunkers at 350 yards. Then it is key to place the second shot close to the approach bunkers on the right as the green is a severe fall away from front left to back right with a huge bunker guarding the shot in from the left. Almost impossible to approach from this angle.
 
17 has a cool green and one of those depth deception ridges 40 yards short. It has one bunker placed in to each side which accentuates the feeling that the green is just there. Excellent use of dead ground. Other than that it is a straightaway long par-4. Darwin liked it because it was a tough hole. In his time it had over thirty bunkers on it, since reduced to eleven in its current iteration.
 
Both holes offer great golf.

[Thomas Dai]

Welcome Tim.


Portmarnock question - were the last 5 holes as reported on by Darwin nearly 100 yrs ago the same as the current last 5 holes?


Hardest finish I've played - Carnoustie. Honourable mention - Royal St Georges.


atb

[Ally Mcintosh]

Welcome Tim.


Portmarnock question - were the last 5 holes as reported on by Darwin nearly 100 yrs ago the same as the current last 5 holes?


Hardest finish I've played - Carnoustie. Honourable mention - Royal St Georges.


atb

Thomas,
 
Compared with most Victorian era links, Portmarnock has gone through very few changes to the basic hole corridors / skeleton routing. The only major change was the introduction of the par-3 fifteenth and eradication of the NLE par-3 seventeeth (played perpendicular from current 17th green to old 18th tees).
 
This happened in the early 1920's, along with quite a few new green sites (including the current 14th). Club autocrat Guppy Cairnes oversaw the changes but we know it followed a report by Harry Colt in 1919. We just don't have any definitive proof what was in that report as it was lost in an early club fire.
 
Can't remember when Darwin wrote those comments - Was it in his 1910 book?
 
Ally

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks Ally. Fabulous place.
atb

[Tim Gallant]

Tim


Just tried to email you but not sure if it went. Perhaps you could let me know if you received it.


Niall

Thanks for reaching out Niall - I received the email, and will aim to get back shortly!

[Tim Gallant]

Welcome Tim,


I'm also in Edinburgh. Unlike you I'm born and bred. Apart from a brief sojourn living in Germany after university I've never left. I play my golf in the city at Mortonhall. My uncle is a member at Gullane so I get a chance play along the East Lothian coast as well.


We can hopefully get a game before winter properly descends.


Michael

Excellent - have not made it to Mortonhall yet, but certainly one on the list. Gullane has three great courses and only adds to the spoil of choices that is East Lothian. Look forward to a game soon.

[Tim Gallant]

Thanks Ally for a bit of a background on the last couple of holes. I had read it in his book 'Golf Courses of the British Isles'. I knew there was the addition of the 15th, but didn't know much else about any changes.


I agree that 17 was a strong par-5, and I did appreciate the green complex around the 17th, which has some interesting slopes.


Ed - Interesting to hear about the finish at St. Enodoc - not played there yet, but will see if I can find a profile on the course here to learn more.

[Ed Tilley]

Ed - Interesting to hear about the finish at St. Enodoc - not played there yet, but will see if I can find a profile on the course here to learn more.

Tim,

You won't have any trouble finding one of those! There's been so many of them that I won't even think about taking the camera next week - I've done a photo tour myself already. St. Enodoc is just about my favourite course. It is also one of the sacred cows of GCA - right up there with your home course which sadly I've never played.

Anyway, welcome to the site - very rude of me not to say this in my first post.

Ed