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Kyle Henderson

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Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2009, 01:02:20 PM »
$55 million plus hush money. ;)
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Lou_Duran

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Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2009, 01:18:56 PM »
[Lou:

Thank you for that story!  On the drive from El Saler back to Madrid today, my host Alfonso Erhardt was asking me why mentions of Tom Fazio draw such irate responses on GCA.  I tried my best to explain, but now I can just point him to your post!

I have not built nearly as many courses as Mr. Fazio, and am admittedly not as good at "getting things done for" my clients, if by that you mean spending their money in outrageous chunks.  I have designed 29 courses and have yet to feel the need to rip a new canyon anywhere at the cost of $1 million.

I guess the most expensive hole I've ever buillt would have to be at Stone Eagle or at Rock Creek, since they were all rock and the budgets were naturally higher.  My best guess would be that it was the sixth at Stone Eagle, or possibly the 13th or 14th.

Tom,

I was invited to the grassing ceremony at Dallas National by one of the founding members who was a neighbor of the developer.  Through him I got to meet Fazio, several members of his staff, and "the client".  My friend and I had Mr. Fazio to ourselves for only 10 minutes or so before other people started moving in to form an audience.  I sensed that Fazio is probably similar to you in personality, a bit introverted (in a good sense; private, if you will), but could shift into marketing mode with some ease.  He seemed to remain within a script, and in this context the story about #17 conveyed a primary theme of Dallas National- unlike any other in north Texas; a club where no expense was spared to achieve excellence.

It should be noted that DN was organized and built during a difficult time in the local economy.  It boasted a $30 Million budget, by far the most expensive course ever built in this part of the country, and six figure initiation fees known only at that time at the highly exclusive men's-only Preston Trail GC.  The concensus opinion in the area was that it would never get off the ground; and when it did, that it would never be completed; and when it was, that it would not be financially viable.  The developer proved everyone wrong, the club has completed its conversion to member-owned, and I heard that he is now in the process of replicating the experience in CO with Fazio at his side.

If you are to use my example with Alfonso or anyone else, you may also wish to also point out that the composition of this website includes a lot of people who are impaired myopically with a serious case of class envy.  This group fails to understand that without profit, wealth, and investment, most of us are left to our own devices to scratch out a living.  Ironically, though they detest large budgets and expensive golf courses, they have no similar problems with government running trillion dollar deficits.

I really don't know that much about Fazio's portfolio, but are there some of his designs in default or in the process of closing down?  Not that he has any responsiblity for the financial structure of the courses he designed, but if so, what percentage of his portfolio do these comprise?  Is it the role of an architect to talk his client down from the type of course he wants to build?  Is the golf architect now a feasibilty and financial expert?

BTW, what are your thoughts on El Saler?

Mike Nuzzo,

Despite your fantastic achievement at Wolf Point, you are, my friend, relatively high on the learning curve.  I think very highly of DN's #17, particularly in the context of the three demanding finishing holes.   I find them all very good individually, as a group, and in their position in the routing.  The canyon is also very cool, though if it was my $1 Million, I don't know that I could have pulled the trigger.      
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 01:21:08 PM by Lou_Duran »

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2009, 01:25:27 PM »

Perhaps it's time to start a thread on Trump LA itself, I know I could write alot about it. Also, I really feel sorry for Pete Dye; the course is/was not his best work, but it wasn't his fault. The site is absolutely world class and it's unfortunate that Trump owns it and is probably too proud to ever consider building a new one.


You're kidding about the world class part right?

By most accounts, Trump actually IMPROVED the place by adding much-needed width and a driving range which is pretty nice. To me those are major improvements on what is a VERY poor site with a gorgeous view.


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2009, 01:40:41 PM »

Perhaps it's time to start a thread on Trump LA itself, I know I could write alot about it. Also, I really feel sorry for Pete Dye; the course is/was not his best work, but it wasn't his fault. The site is absolutely world class and it's unfortunate that Trump owns it and is probably too proud to ever consider building a new one.


You're kidding about the world class part right?

By most accounts, Trump actually IMPROVED the place by adding much-needed width and a driving range which is pretty nice. To me those are major improvements on what is a VERY poor site with a gorgeous view.



Ryan,

I was thinking the same...it may have world class views, but certainly didn't appear to be a world class site when I visited there a couple of years back.

Even my wife, who knows nothing about golf architecture said the waterfalls were beyond tacky!!

Sam Morrow

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2009, 01:58:30 PM »
18 At The Wynn has to be up there.

Mark Smolens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2009, 03:19:55 PM »
"The seventh hole at Beverly cost me plenty this year when my ball got stuck in the crotch of a tree during the final round of our calcutta."

Leave it to Lavin to hijack this thread with another Tiger Woods reference.  Haven't we heard enough about the poor guy's balls getting stuck in those seven different crotches??

Ian Andrew

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #31 on: December 08, 2009, 08:44:09 PM »
If memory serves -- the 1st at Devil's Pulpit was not a cheap deal either.

Jeff's right, just over a million, if I remember correctly because they rebuilt the hole after they finished it.
The pond might have been part of the rebuild..

I've got to imagine that the 18th hole at the Doug Carrick redo at Bigwin Island would give the 1st at the Pulpit a run for its money as most expensive hole in Canada to build. Perhaps Ian can shed some light on that one...

It wasn't my project, so this is from memory...
The hole got washed out after seeding, and it required a pretty substantial clean up, but the costs were not high.

Of note: there was no hole there - I saw the original Bigwin (around 5,800 yards)  - and none of the holes were used.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2009, 08:50:17 PM by Ian Andrew »

Tom MacWood

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #32 on: December 08, 2009, 11:25:28 PM »
Oyster Harbors was a very expensive Donald Ross course in 1926, it cost somewhere around $250,000 to build. The 11th hole alone cost $30,000 to build which was reportedly a record at the time - an excellent hole by the way.

I'm not sure what that translates into in modern dollars.

Jason McNamara

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2009, 12:11:36 AM »
The 11th hole alone cost $30,000 to build which was reportedly a record at the time - an excellent hole by the way.

I'm not sure what that translates into in modern dollars.

Not even $400K today.  Still a bargain!

Andrew Summerell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2009, 12:24:42 AM »
The television commentators said that 16th at Sherwood (the par 3 with all the waterfalls) cost $10 million to construct.  That's a lot money for a golf hole, especially a par 3.  Any other examples of really expensive holes?  I suppose all 18 at Shadow Creek.

Was the commentators comment about cost meant to be an affirmation of the holes quality?

Ray Richard

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2009, 05:53:19 AM »
I'd add Quarry Hill/Granite Links in Quincy and Milton Mass to the list. Last I heard they spent 110 million building 27 holes. It's quite a story.

It began when a landfill contractor proposed to connect two open dumps into a golf course. He paired up with an ex-mayor of Quincy and his son, and two brothers with deep political ties and development experience.They added the McCourt Company, run by the brother of the current owner of the LA Dodgers.

A few years later, theBoston's  Big Dig needed  a home for 6 million yards of excavation. The Quarry Hills, 5 miles away from the site, had two deep quarries, and most of the wet material was dumped into them. The structural fill ended up covering the two landfills creating 50-100 foot fills and plenty of nice views.

After placing the fill, they trucked in thousands of loads of sand from Plymouth,Ma, about 40 miles away.

The project team created an intriguing golf course with a big clubhouse and nice views. As the course neared completion, citizens realized that this golf course complex would charge 100 dollar green fees and it would have a private, upscale vibe. Many locals thought it would replace the horrible, nearby Ponkapoag with public access and cheap green fees. Some sit in the clubhouse looking at the empty golf course they can't afford to play.

John Moore II

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2009, 05:53:13 PM »
Well, since someone mentioned Pebble Beach, how much did they spend on that rock wall running down #18 to keep that hole from erroding into the ocean? I have to think that was a large sum of money.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2009, 11:55:53 PM »
The par3 3rd at Ventana Canyon's Mountain Course(T. Fazio)

The hole was reputed to have cost $1.5 million to build, making it at the time one of the most expensive ever built. And the green was a break-through in technology back in the ‘80s. Due to the fact that the hole is in a canyon and does not receive sunlight in the winter months, the construction superintendent placed heating coils within the green. That alone keeps the turf from freezing.



Hate to nit pick, but the heating/cooling system was installed in '93 when my brother, Ron, was the super at VC. I was working down the street at La Paloma and would come over in the afternoon and hang out while they rebuilt the greens on the Mt course. The system was not part of the original construction.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Most Expensive Golf Holes New
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2009, 12:24:11 AM »
How much did Lido cost, adjusted to today's dollar?

« Last Edit: December 10, 2009, 12:31:11 PM by Pete_Pittock »