Interesting recent quote from David McLay Kidd....

[Nick Schaan]

I must say our Ping Pong matches were a ton a of fun. All is well  #2 on the way in May, a boy so excited

[JESII]

Any chance he was referencing his abilities as an architect?

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

David is probably better than an "8 handicap" as an architect now.  And believe me, he is in his own mind. 

Rich:

David may have referenced his change in architectural attitude to his lower handicap, but I am not sure that is required.  Every architect goes through phases over his career.  After one's first couple of courses, confidence grows, and I think it is generally in that phase that one's hardest courses come out of the box.  Examples would include Black Forest in my case, Sitwell Park in MacKenzie's, or any of Jack Nicklaus' courses from the 1980s.   

Then you play those courses a bit and get some feedback from the paying customers, and you likely tend to tone it down a bit and not be overconfident in your thinking.

If it's handicap-related, then why did MacKenzie design fewer bunkers and wider open spaces late in his career, as his handicap improved?  I think it was because he knew his audience better.

[Rob Rigg]

To be honest, I did not enjoy "The Seventh at St Andrews" very much but it did have some insight in terms of DMK and his thoughts as an architect.

From a psychological standpoint, Kidd is a very interesting study. Imagine being Jordan or Gretzky's son and being in a situation where you take advantage of what your father has done to climb the ladder and get in positions of responsibility but you constantly struggle to get out from under his shadow.

Whether you like it or not, Bandon provided Kidd with a lot of street cred and really allowed him to break out of the "yer man's son" mold and excel on his own. Based on everything I have read about Kidd, he is truly passionate about what he does and cocky to boot. He spends time on the ground and does not mail in his projects, he cares about what he does and but is not afraid to rock the boat or push boundaries because he knows his skills, at least in the past couple of years, have been thoroughly in demand.

At the end of the day, Kidd is far from a minimalist. At the Castle, he had a flat piece of pasture with a sewage plant in the middle. He had to create a course and that he did. Per the DMK website, his goal is "purist" golf - IMO - that means whether manufactured, tweaked or not.

I do not think his handicap had anything to do with the creation of the Castle Course. What we see today is the outcome of a very strong artistic expression - Kidd no longer dabbles in "landscape paintings" it is almost "metaphorical" in nature and certainly bold. He took a pancake and creating something with tons of movement.

I respect Kidd for his work, because I think he has internalized what he learned as a youth, and has spun it in a very modern way that still, somehow, pays homage to the past.

I know Melvyn and others would disagree.

Kidd is a bit over the top and I doubt he would debate you on that issue.

[Michael Dugger]

To be honest, I did not enjoy "The Seventh at St Andrews" very much but it did have some insight in terms of DMK and his thoughts as an architect.

From a psychological standpoint, Kidd is a very interesting study. Imagine being Jordan or Gretzky's son and being in a situation where you take advantage of what your father has done to climb the ladder and get in positions of responsibility but you constantly struggle to get out from under his shadow.

Whether you like it or not, Bandon provided Kidd with a lot of street cred and really allowed him to break out of the "yer man's son" mold and excel on his own. Based on everything I have read about Kidd, he is truly passionate about what he does and cocky to boot. He spends time on the ground and does not mail in his projects, he cares about what he does and but is not afraid to rock the boat or push boundaries because he knows his skills, at least in the past couple of years, have been thoroughly in demand.

At the end of the day, Kidd is far from a minimalist. At the Castle, he had a flat piece of pasture with a sewage plant in the middle. He had to create a course and that he did. Per the DMK website, his goal is "purist" golf - IMO - that means whether manufactured, tweaked or not.

I do not think his handicap had anything to do with the creation of the Castle Course. What we see today is the outcome of a very strong artistic expression - Kidd no longer dabbles in "landscape paintings" it is almost "metaphorical" in nature and certainly bold. He took a pancake and creating something with tons of movement.

I respect Kidd for his work, because I think he has internalized what he learned as a youth, and has spun it in a very modern way that still, somehow, pays homage to the past.

I know Melvyn and others would disagree.

Kidd is a bit over the top and I doubt he would debate you on that issue.

Rob,

There is no need to even breath the words "minimalist" when it comes to a project like the Castle.

So why confuse folks?  Most everyone here "gets it" 

Where there are no virtuous natural features to preserve, there can be no "minimalism"

[Philippe Binette]

A course poorly built won't fall... but it will be a mess 10 years down the road. Nice quote

He's probably to only guy I know who works in design and his handicap is going down

[Melvyn Morrow]

Rob

I do not have a problem with Kidd or his actual design at The Castle. You say that “He took a pancake and creating something with tons of movement” – I don’t quite see it that way, I see something that to me appears like a golf Disneyland. It is a fake, it’s totally out of its depth with the surrounding landscape and reflects a very artificial nature. It is certainly not a links course in the true sense nor an inland course, it carries compromise through out. That of course does not mean that it is a poor design or will not achieve its desired function – what ever that might be (cash cow?). But IMHO it has done nothing for golf, certainly exposed the Links Trust position, who have created an overspill revenue animal. Yet Kidd has done what was asked of him and as the early reports come in many golfers appear to have more than a liking for the course.

This type of course is again IMHO not good for golf, it shouts that with enough money one can build anything, anywhere and anyhow. The cost of this course is unacceptable in my eyes. That money would have been better spent improving communication between to clubs and their visitors (not members).  A golf course is today a business and needs to be conducted on those lines. It should not start its life with a massive debt or be seen as a potential white elephant. It needs to attract golfers of all ages and both sexes.  As for being a St Andrews Course – well enjoy the drive form St Andrews but I don’t think many will walk to it. 

I wonder if in today’s financial climate the course would have been considered let alone built. But then we all have our own opinions and one mans debt is another’s golf course.

Melvyn 

[Rob Rigg]

Melvyn,

I have only seen pictures of The Castle, which based on your description has echoes of Shadow Creek in Vegas. If it is really a Disneyland course then that is unfortunate.

I wonder if, based on where where one lives and golfing experience, The Castle would not seem "out of place" for North American golfers who tend to play inland courses where "the hand of man" is quite evident.

For a golfer who grew up playing the grand courses of Fife it is a bit of an eyesore because you knew what was there before and cannot believe the circus that is there now.

In the grand scheme of things I would tend to agree that courses should not be manufactured out of nothing, because the natural movement of the land provides so much of the greatness of any great course.

I hope to see The Castle in juxtaposition to TOC, Cruden Bay, Brora, Leven, etc. one day. It will be educational.

[James Bennett]

My favorite from his website:

Home > Portfolio
Fiji (private island)

A private course on a private island for a very private client.

if you build a private course on a private island for a private client have you actually built it? (trees falling in forests etc etc)

Neil

have you asked Bob Harrison that one?

And, if you design a course and it never gets built, have you actually designed a course?

James B

[Neil_Crafter]

James
I have designed quite a few courses that have never been built. I consider that they have been designed, just not built.
Neil