[Jay Flemma]

All architects/designers whatever they are called are different.  While Jay did a good job I think he would even admit you could change the name and use that interview for 10 other signature architects.  What could be read "between the lines" was the interesting part of the interview.   I  dont have a problem with RTJr courses....enjoyed the one in ATL very much.... BUT JAY... the main thing I got from this interview...and it was good...was I had never heard of "perimeter weighted fairways"...great term.....and a very good description....I think it puts so much in perspective as to the era one is designing for....."blade" fairways for more traditional designs and "perimeter weigted" for the more modern designs.....it can even go to green complexes...."muscle back" or "perimeter".  It is also a great term for describing one's design philosophy....

Cliff,  I hope TD continues to take things personally.....he should.....IMHO the one thing that will come out of all of this downturn will be much leaner offices where the name architect will have to be the one doing the work and over the last 25 years we have had an era where I would bet some of the big firm "names" don't even know what is happening.  Now that doesnt mean they don't have very good associates....it means they have lost touch.  I also think "clean" architects are a thing of the past.....next time.....ultra detailed plans take back seat to guys that will take a job and be there as much as possible in the dirt.....with their guys...
I hope no one takes that personally....or maybe

Interesting, Mike.  There's a lot of good stuff in there.I tried to ask the boiler plate qs while at the same time sidestepping to get more in depth answers to some of the interesting responses I got.  You're right, since this was my first interview with bob, and since my intended audience is broad, I kept it simple.  The other two problems you have are 1) you can't go too long, and 2) Jones has so many decades of experience, you can only cover so much.

Plus, as both Jeff B and Tom D mention, Jones has so many varied interests and is so knowledgeable about them, you could go all night.

Just like all the others I've done, this was a really fun interview to do.

I like how you picked up on perimeter weighted fairways.  I liked that too.  It's cool how bob saw that, and how Jim E designs them.

Rob, have you seen tees similar to CB and where?  That might be an interesting photo thread comparison.

[Peter Pallotta]

Thanks, Jay - good interview.

It seems to confirm something I've been thinking lately, i.e. that most architects design pretty much exactly the kind of golf courses they WANT to design, ones that suit their TASTES in the broadest sense of that word.  What I get from reading his answers is that RTJ Jr is a very accomplished and experienced and knowledgable craftsman (but I may be biased, since I can't think of any golf architect who is NOT a solid and knowledgable craftsman)...

I find myself thinking these days that there is not another group of professionals who understand and manifest their craft as well as golf architects understand and manifest theirs
 
Peter 

[Mike_Young]

Mike Y,

Interesting take on getting your hands dirty.  I agree that going to an interview and stressing personal service (in place of getting an associate) is probably a non starter these days, because most clients know we aren't that busy and want the head guy involved a lot of the time.  I don't think the dynamics of the signature design are going to change a lot.  I think the owners of courses built next year will simply be able to brag more that the sig designer REALLY designed my course!

Also, while you are design-build, you see design builders benefitting.  While I do see some of that, and my tendency has been to draw plans with independent field evaluations, which affects my perception as much as your experience affects yours, with all the financial shennanigans going on in other industries, I can also see a clear separation and more financial accounting being part of golf projects now. In general terms, we have lagged behind other construction industries in project managment sophisitication.

If a golf course gets financed in these times, I would just figure the bank would probably want more controls on the loan.

Jeff,
You may be right.  Or there may be a hybrid consisting of both of our views. 
I think there will definitely be cases where the architect will manage a set of subcontractors instead of bidding to one general contractor and I also sense that there is a trend by many golf contractors and shapers to promote themselves as being able to design/build the project w/o an architect.  I have seen this several times lately.....it's where you get doglegs with 200 yard turn points and 7 iron teeshots combined with three wood approaches  BUT some can and that is going to be a factor also.  So many low key redos are nothing more than a contractor and the local supt.....and it may be that works for a lot of people. 
I think what I am trying to say is that architects over the next few years will need to be creative in how they sell services....the overall price has to work.......the website photos of the arch standing in the field with a rolled set of plans and pointing in the distance is over  IMHO....

[Rob Rigg]

Jay,

We may have discussed the free form tees here before , but I cannot find the thread.

From time to time I look at the pics from Ballyneal and #4 is my screen saver at work - those look like free form or ribbon tees to me although I have never played them.

I thought I saw them in another picture as well - maybe someone else can chime in if this one has not been beaten to death on the site already? 

[Matthew Mollica]

One thing that continually surprises me about RTJ Jr is the absence of any discussion of his work at The National in Cape Schanck, on Melbourne's Mornington Peninsula. He completed several courses in Australia including Joondalup and a Course for the Hyatt Regency Resort in Coolum (just south of Noosa) which hosts the Australian PGA.

RTJ Jrs work at The National is unique, and very good. I've not seen many of his overseas courses but struggle to believe he's built 5 courses better than that at The National. It is a dramatic, windswept, sandy site, offerring amazing shot making, and the course is very well bunkered. There's one or two pedestrian holes there, but no outright weak holes. Great routing and a real achievment for any GCA.

Jay, if you speak with him again, I'd be very interested to get his thoughts on his course at Cape Schanck. I'll also do a hole by hole photo essay of the course later this year, and will be keen to get feedback from the treehouse.

MM

[Andy Troeger]

We-Ko Pa Saguaro also has the "ribbon tees." I do think they are a nice touch at all of the courses where they are utilized.

[Jay Flemma]

Matthew, good idea.  I did try to focus more on his American work.  He mentioned a few international courses, including one in Moscow, which I'm curious to see pix of, and Joond.

Andy, got ant pix of the tees at either Ballyneal or We-ko-pa Saguaro for comparison?

[Andy Troeger]

Unfortunately I think all my pictures from either place are taken from the tee and are zoomed out toward the fairway...I'll take a look but I doubt I'll have any good examples.

[Rob Rigg]

Jay,

I can't figure out how to post a picture.

If you go to Ballyneal's homepage and look on the course photos in the gallery you can see the free form tees on Hole #4 (and possibly others).

Sorry my lack of skilz 
 

 
 
 

[Jay Flemma]

Ah.  I see what's going on.  There's a difference between Bob's ribbon tees and the free form tees at ballyneal.  Ribbon is completely different.

This is the tee you mentioned:



Now a ribbon tee would be an extended runway tee,l connecting one box with another, but what jones does at CB is mow it and make it all a place where you could put the tees.  Imagine tee-able walking paths connecting all the boxes.  That's what jones says when he describes long ribbons on long-shaped Christmas presents.



The the 7th, 8th and14th holes show the best example.  A long thin  strip that's all tee-able.

See the difference?

TD, do you have a name for the teeing grounds at Ballyneal?

[Tom Ferrell]

Well done, Jay.

I echo Tom D.'s comments - Bobby is a great guy to sit down and talk to.  Much of the conversation veers quickly away from golf.  We recently talked for half an hour about Bohemian Grove - a Northern California gathering of renaissance men from business, the arts, etc.  He went on and on about how much fun he had getting to know the Grateful Dead's Bob Weir.

No one has mentioned his bringing up the third at Riviera as an example of deception.  Great call by RTJ there.  I love that hole, but it seems to get lost among so many gems. 

Nice read.

[Garland Bayley]

Jay,

It seems you let him off the hook, when you didn't go deeper here.

RTJ: Yes and no. When those styles were in vogue, they were playing with wooden-shafted clubs and balls that were imperfect. In the 21st Century, new defenses will be created by master architects in keeping with the way golf is played in our time.

[Rob Rigg]

Thanks Jay - I see what you mean re: the tees.

There is indeed a difference between "Ribbon" and Free Form (or variable slope) tees

[Jay Flemma]

Jay,

It seems you let him off the hook, when you didn't go deeper here.

RTJ: Yes and no. When those styles were in vogue, they were playing with wooden-shafted clubs and balls that were imperfect. In the 21st Century, new defenses will be created by master architects in keeping with the way golf is played in our time.

Garland, I don't think I let him off the hook at all.  We talked that point, and simultaneously a second point as well.  Over on the Jim Engh in Nebraska thread we see an example.  There are some sites where the original design - for whatever reason - should not be preserved and could be markedly improved.  Of course you don't sign the Mona Lisa with a spray can and call it art, but you can paint over chicken scratching without committing any sin at all.

It's a question of know when you should.

***LYRIC ALERT*** Sign the Mona Lisa with a spray can, call it art, but never give your love my friends...

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()