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Mark_Rowlinson

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Alwoodley pictures (plus)
« on: November 13, 2008, 07:14:05 AM »
It was my delight to write The Alwoodley Golf Club's Centenary Book. It's a lovely club with a super course and splendid clubhouse. Many of you have played it, so here are a few photographs:

1. 404 yards par 4. The presence of OOB on left causes many to drive too far right, from which it is hard to find the well-bunkered green. The bunker rear left is wicked. Third picture is MaceKenzie approaching the green.




2. 305 yards par 4. You can see the hill up which this hole plays on the first photograph of the 1st. It can be driven, but the risks are too great to make it a sensible option.



3. 514 yards par 5. Sorry, but it's the only picture I've got of this hole. It fails to show the drop to the lower level on the left of the green. I'm sure one of you has a better one. Please post!


4. 478 yards par 4. A very tough par 4, usually played into the wind. An old 35mm picture, hence the graininess.



5. 369 yards par 4. A delightful hole, the drive needing to hold the left-to-right falling fairway, and the pitch over the bunkers from that right side is testing.



6. 455 yards par 4. A difficult driving hole from the back tee, with the fairway largely invisible (and impossible to photograph without a crane). While there is room on the right of the fairway, shooting straight for the green can be hazardous. This green is not a 1907 original. The hole was lengthened in MacKenzie's time.



7. 143 yards par 3. A charming short hole. Old photographs show that the bunkering (style and positioning) was altered several times in MacKenzie's day.




8. 584 yards par 5. John Green, the club's Professional (here seen playing from the back tee), points out that both par 5s are in reach of two shots with the prevailing wind, and that for a good player the course is harder when the wind is from the east. The drive must avoid trees to the left and for handicap golfers the second shot must not come to grief in the remnants of the once extensive cross bunker seen in the second picture. It stretched further, being a hazard on the 9th, too. The green rises towards the back and is angled across the line of a long second shot.




9. 191 yards par 3. Not a great photo of this lovely hole, played across low, rough ground to a green with many difficult pin positions around the edges. Usually into the wind, this hole can play surprisingly long.


10. 475 yards par 5. A hole that in some ways resembles the 13th at ANGC. The club originally did not have access to the land where the green now stands, and the original green was level with the mound on the right. MacKenzie's sketch map of ca 1910 indicates that he would build a green where this one is if the land ever became available. When it did become available (1929) MacKenzie was no longer welcome at the club and it is doubtful that MacKenzie oversaw its construction. Its slopes are considerable and front left pin positions are treacherous. Ran Morrissett and Nick Leefe in the second picture.



11. 167 yards par 3. One of Ben Crenshaw's favourite holes at TAGC. But is it a MacKenzie original? We simply don't know. On MacKenzie's map he indicated that if the land became available he would move the hole forward, still at about 150 yards' length, constructing a green in the style of Gibraltar (which he had recently built at Moortown). As originally played the tee was low, to the right, and forward of today's tees, level with the original green. From there it is possible to play a bump-and-run shot as there is no bunker on the direct line. That tee would be too dangerous today, with shots played to the modern 10th green, so from today's tees the shot has to clear a bunker, and there are huge slopes from back-to-front and right-to-left. This is, consequently, the only hole on the course which doesn't have a clear opening at the front. Our confusion over whether this hole was moved arises from two entries in the minutes recording that permission was given for the construction of a new 11th, but there is nothing to say that the work was ever carried out. The placement of today's bunkers is exactly the same as MacKenzie's original (see third photograph) although the style is different and the original was out in the open, with not a tree to be seen.




12. 365 yards par 4. Old photos show that this hole was originally treeless. The main concern was a topped shot into the abundant gorse in front of the tee. Today's good players, however, are playing for position for the second shot into the green.



13. 402 yards par 4. The start of the run home into the wind, usually playing much longer than the indicated yardage. There are several deceptive borrows on this green, and pins tucked in behind the left-hand bunker can only be accessed from the right of the fairway.



14. 206 yards par 3. A hefty par 3 usually played with a left-to-right wind, bringing the left-hand bunker into play, or running off the right side of the green. The domed nature of the green makes long putts difficult to pace. Originally, there was an OOB fence just through the back of the green, which then played to 154 yards.




15. 409 yards par 4. A long dog-leg to the right on which accuracy from the tee is vital. The green has a steep slope up at the front and a depression towards the rear left. For a better picture and description see Ran Morrissett's profile in 'Courses by Country'. These young golfers are taking part in the 2007 Tillman Trophy, a top amateur tournament.



16. 414 yards par 4. Played across the wind (and the 3rd fairway) the drive is blind, over a pond and heathery ridge to a fairway curving from right to left. Big hitters may well hit the drive over the right-hand trees, allowing the wind to bring the ball back. The approach to the rising green is always a pleasure. There used to be a slight ridge running from side to side across the putting surface, but it is now more of gentle undulation.




17. 434 yards par 4. A hole that is much easier for the bigger hitter, who can easily clear the right hand bunkers and take advantage of the wider fairway later in the hole, leaving a short approach down the hill to the green. For the rest of us that second shot is testing with dreadful trouble in the gorse on the hill and no marks for running through. Tillman Trophy competitors, again.




18. 470 yards par 4. Tough hole. 2nd picture is MacKenzie on the tee.

« Last Edit: November 14, 2008, 11:33:22 AM by Mark_Rowlinson »

Sean_A

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 07:25:03 AM »
You know Mark, I think this is the first comprehensive set of Alwoodly pix I have seen.  CHEERS!

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Peter Pallotta

Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2008, 07:44:57 AM »
Yes - thank you Mark, just lovely.

While I know it isn't true, looking at your pictures I could almost believe that Alwoodley maintains itself, i.e. that no one is there to mow fairways or cut greens or maintain bunkers....it's just there, as it is always, and always has been.

Goodness but I sure do like the courses you and Sean profile on here. They are homely, in the best sense of that word. I think of comfortable old cardigans and a tumblers of smokey/peaty scotch and plates of welsh rarebit (and how those images come to an Italian-Canadian who's never left downtown Toronto I have no idea).

The heart of golf alright...

Peter

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2008, 09:41:49 AM »
Peter, In the old days Alwoodley almost did look after itself. They didn't start raking bunkers until 1919 (I think it was) and it was not until February 1931 that they acquired a motor tractor. By American standards the permanent greenkeeping staff will be few in number, but they are these days well equipped, have a purpose built equipment shed and workshop.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 12:15:48 PM »
I was in England last week and got to play Alwoodley with Mark Pierce and Mark, who walked with us.  It was an English misty day.  Here are a few more pictures of number three.





Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2008, 12:26:56 PM »
Alwoodley is splendid.  It is full of character.  The strategic quality of the course is absolutely outstanding.  There are so many ways to play each hole that the fun meter is very high. I would love to get back when it is fast and firm.  I think eight, nine, and ten, and eleven are my favorite holes.  Playing them all in a row makes you want to go back and play with them again.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Bill_McBride

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2008, 01:08:57 PM »
Alwoodley is splendid.  It is full of character.  The strategic quality of the course is absolutely outstanding.  There are so many ways to play each hole that the fun meter is very high. I would love to get back when it is fast and firm.  I think eight, nine, and ten, and eleven are my favorite holes.  Playing them all in a row makes you want to go back and play with them again.

Tommy, I was pretty sure you were going to love Alwoodley.  It is one of my favorite and what a time capsule for Mackenzie fans!

I really agree about 8, 9 , 10, 11...a great stretch of holes.  #8 with that rough/bunker complex stretching across the fairway at just the right point makes it a really good par 5.  Lay up in front and it's a long hole.

Did #10 play like a par 4 or par 5 for you?  I don't hit that long draw tee shot that might catch the downslope, so it was definitely a par 5 for me.  But I could definitely see it as #13 at Augusta playing at about 475.

And #11 is just a great par 3 with that sloped green sitting up there.

It doesn't get weak after that either - the finish all the way in is very strong.

Tom Naccarato

Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2008, 01:17:45 PM »
Mark, I just enjoy the way you make Alwoodley look like a Sandbelt course in Australia (weather wise) When I played Alwoodley, the wind was coming off the Moors in a terrible fashion. I don't think I've ever been that cold in all of my life and this was the first part of July in 1996!

It also gave me a reason why the Brits play the game so fast when compared to us idiots in the U.S.: They want to get off of the course as soon as possible because its so EFFING cold! ;)

Craig Disher

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2008, 01:31:40 PM »
Thanks for posting those. They bring back memories from a wonderful Buda Cup.

Back in the 80s I had a chance to work near Leeds. For some reason, I believed there wouldn't be good golf nearby. What a moron.

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2008, 02:53:51 PM »
Tom, the good weather pictures were during a period of exceptional heat. I got stuck in a traffic jam on the M62 and the car's outside temperature thermometer registered 38 degrees Celsius. (It did briefly top 40 degrees in Provence this summer).

Tony_Muldoon

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2008, 03:54:59 PM »
Thank you Mark.  One of my top 5 Heathland courses and I’ll be back there 3x before I go back to the more famous Woodhall.


The18th

Very uncomfortable angle to hit fiarway.



This gives an idea of the slopes from fairway through to the front the 5th green. Absolutely one of my favourite holes. You can see it all from the tee, the problem is finding the shots you want to hit.




Slopes in greens – look hard and you can just make out a huge dip in the green here  to the left– nuts... and lovely. 

Generally I found the greens to be outstanding and more interesting than nearly all other Heathland courses I’ve seen.


These carries over gorse remind me of Huntercombe and Ganton. A common feature of early Heathland courses?




The Buda Cup.  What a great event that was. It was a shame Mark couldn’t be with us.

Let's make GCA grate again!

Mark Pearce

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2008, 04:29:40 PM »
Did #10 play like a par 4 or par 5 for you?  I don't hit that long draw tee shot that might catch the downslope, so it was definitely a par 5 for me.  But I could definitely see it as #13 at Augusta playing at about 475.
I can report that in wet conditions, with little or no run Tommy hit driver, three wood and two-putted for birdie.

It's a great course.  8 to 11 may be the best run but 5 might be the best hole, though 16 is a contender and 15 has that wonderful green.  2 is a great short par 4, 18 is a really tough finish and 17 is a challenge.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2008, 04:37:34 PM »
Did #10 play like a par 4 or par 5 for you?  I don't hit that long draw tee shot that might catch the downslope, so it was definitely a par 5 for me.  But I could definitely see it as #13 at Augusta playing at about 475.

I can report that in wet conditions, with little or no run Tommy hit driver, three wood and two-putted for birdie.


That's cool, it did play like #13 at Augusta used to play!  There really was some simiilarity to the hole's shape, although nothing the challenges at the greenside.

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2008, 04:18:17 AM »
Mark, Tommy & Tony

Thanks for posting these.  I can never get enough photographs of Alwoodley, one of my favourite courses.  Although several of you have identified the run from 8 through 11 I think that the run of 2 (a great short par 4 with a blind drive); 3 (another good driving hole with a cool green - a par 5 thats really a 4 & a half); 4 (a tough par 4 into the prevailing wind - again a 4 & a half); the incomparable 5th with a great drive and a difficult green to hold; concluding with another great semi blind driving hole at the 6th.

The more I think about Alwoodley the more annoyed I get with myself.  I live 30 minutes away yet I played more rounds there during two days of BUDA than I'd done during the past twenty years ::)
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

TEPaul

Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2008, 06:52:54 AM »
Mark:

Those are a fine series of photogrpaphs. I've only played Alwoodley once a bit over five years ago during the Walker Cup week at Ganton. The course sure has a special feel and aura about it for me, something like what I was hoping for (not knowing English golf well at all) and sort of what I was expecting from Mackenzie. The holes that had a little something different for me (maybe because of the way I was playing and thinking) were #7 and #17. I think that day was one of the last good rounds I had.

I forgot about those in-line fairway rolls on #2. Those are some of those old agricultural features, aren't they? I also loved how #3 and #16 crossed one another---eg you don't see things like that in modern architecture. Beautiful coloration on that course for golf too.

That day I had a choice of playing either Alwoodley or Moorstown, two courses I'd never seen. Did I make the right decision?

Oh yes, one other thing I remember so well about Alwoodley----the course had that old-fashioned description of "springiness" underfoot. I'd never felt that before on a golf course. It was wonderful for the walk and the lie/play.

Mark Pearce

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2008, 08:53:44 AM »
That day I had a choice of playing either Alwoodley or Moorstown, two courses I'd never seen. Did I make the right decision?
I'd say so. Moortown is a good course but Alwoodley is clearly better.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2008, 09:15:27 AM »
Mark, Tommy & Tony

Thanks for posting these.  I can never get enough photographs of Alwoodley, one of my favourite courses.  Although several of you have identified the run from 8 through 11 I think that the run of 2 (a great short par 4 with a blind drive); 3 (another good driving hole with a cool green - a par 5 thats really a 4 & a half); 4 (a tough par 4 into the prevailing wind - again a 4 & a half); the incomparable 5th with a great drive and a difficult green to hold; concluding with another great semi blind driving hole at the 6th.

The more I think about Alwoodley the more annoyed I get with myself.  I live 30 minutes away yet I played more rounds there during two days of BUDA than I'd done during the past twenty years ::)

Andrew, if I lived that close, I'd be a member, it's that good.  As Tom Paul notes above, the turf there is particularly great to walk on, some of the best anywhere.

Andrew Mitchell

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Re: Alwoodley pictures
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2008, 09:21:56 AM »
Mark, Tommy & Tony

Thanks for posting these.  I can never get enough photographs of Alwoodley, one of my favourite courses.  Although several of you have identified the run from 8 through 11 I think that the run of 2 (a great short par 4 with a blind drive); 3 (another good driving hole with a cool green - a par 5 thats really a 4 & a half); 4 (a tough par 4 into the prevailing wind - again a 4 & a half); the incomparable 5th with a great drive and a difficult green to hold; concluding with another great semi blind driving hole at the 6th.

The more I think about Alwoodley the more annoyed I get with myself.  I live 30 minutes away yet I played more rounds there during two days of BUDA than I'd done during the past twenty years ::)

Andrew, if I lived that close, I'd be a member, it's that good.  As Tom Paul notes above, the turf there is particularly great to walk on, some of the best anywhere.

Bill
Alwoodley remains one of the few courses in the area where it is extremely difficult to become a member.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Bill_McBride

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Re: Alwoodley pictures (plus)
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2008, 01:35:06 PM »
Andrew, sorry to hear that but very understandable.

RJ_Daley

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Re: Alwoodley pictures (plus)
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2008, 03:08:07 PM »
Is it just me or am I correctly associating the feel of Crystal Downs with Alwoodley?  I realise the different climate, yet the look of the pictures puts me in mind of CD.  Of course the patina of more lean turf and less water in FWs is also evident. 

Another question is if anyone knows if the clubhouse at Alwoodley is the inspiration for the clubhouse at Valley Club of Monitcito.  Excuse me if it is obvious and everyone but me may know that.   ::) ;D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Alwoodley pictures (plus)
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2008, 03:55:40 PM »
Is it just me or am I correctly associating the feel of Crystal Downs with Alwoodley?  I realise the different climate, yet the look of the pictures puts me in mind of CD.  Of course the patina of more lean turf and less water in FWs is also evident. 

Another question is if anyone knows if the clubhouse at Alwoodley is the inspiration for the clubhouse at Valley Club of Monitcito.  Excuse me if it is obvious and everyone but me may know that.   ::) ;D

Dick, I think it might be the other way around.  Take a look at the original:



And now the new:



I think there's a big difference between old and new, and I think the new could be modeled on the George Washington Smith design at the Valley Club.  Here's what it looks like:



What do you think?  They are both beautiful clubhouses, but the setting at Montecito is splendid.  It's a tragedy what's going within 2 miles of this beyond that mountainside, with over 100 homes destroyed by the fire raging there now.

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