How come we don't talk more about Black Rock, MA?

[Jay Flemma]

This Silva Course in Boston has a terrific Alps hole at number 4, a great Redan at number 9, and interesting diagonal hazards on several holes, including the 17th.

The Green Monster Bunker Complex.  Carry it, then run downhill at a 45 degree angle for 80 yards to a punchbowl green!

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/jaygolfusa/P5130004.jpg

The Redan from behind

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/jaygolfusa/P5130001.jpg

The 17th

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e302/jaygolfusa/P5130012.jpg

Black Rock and Red Tail (nearby) make a great 1-2 punch!  Plus Silva is greatly influenced by MacRaynor/Banks.

[Matt Waterbury]

Jay,

As a member (full disclosure) I will hold my comments on the merits of the course. Hopefully others join and provide their thoughts.

As to why it does not get discussed, I think there are a lot of reasons, quality of the course/architecture not being a major one:
- Silva is not that popular on this site
- The course got less fanfare when it opened than it's neighbors across the street (Hanse) and a bit down Rt 3 (C&C).
- It's private and pricey, so doesn't get played by most (though I'm always happy to host folks!)
- It's a residential development, and you can see houses from the golf course. Also not popular in this neck of the woods.

Matt

[Billsteele]

Matt-While he does not get the unbridled love that some architects get on this site, I think Brian Silva is generally well regarded. Personally, I believe his work at Black Creek in Chattanooga, Red Tail outside of Boston and Brookside in Canton is very good. The fact that he can pull off a Raynor tribute, a Ross restoration and an original design speaks highly of his ability.

I also recall generally positive comments about Black Rock from the board. I believe you are right about it being overshadowed by Boston Golf Club and Olde Sandwich but it seems to have found a niche on its own. The pictures that I have seen of the course make it seem as if it would appeal to the folks who spend time here.

I was scheduled to play Black Rock a few years ago but a nor'easter scuttled those plans. Hope to make it there some day.

[Matt Waterbury]

Bill,

Please don't take my comments as defensive in nature - the enjoyment I get playing a golf course has very little to do with whether or not and how favorably it is discussed on gca.com.   

And don't tell anyone I said it, but , IMHO, pound for pound (or bang for your buck), Plymouth CC can hold it's own with the new kids in town. And nobody on here talks about that gem...

Brian's work is well respected, but potentially under appreciated and discussed on this board. I think we need an outing at Mountain Lake!

Matt

[Roger Tufts]

I second the notion that Red Tail and Black Rock provide a very nice combination.

I was fortunate enough to play Black Rock in the MGA State Father Son a few years back, and I was pleasantly surprised with the course. For what it is, given the rock outcroppings and constricting property, I thought Silva did a fairly good job with the course making it an absolute blast to play, and many holes have architectural merit as well. I particularly enjoyed the Par 5 with the punchbowl green, and the driveable par 4. Unfortunately, the format that year had us playing in 6-somes (with the selected drive-alternate shot format) so the pace of play took a lot away from what I could enjoy from the layout, but I would love to get back there in a less competitive state to more closely inspect the design merits.

Red Tail, in my opinion, is also one of the Top 3 public courses in Massachusetts. I try to get out there every summer at least once, and it is a place that great golfers and poor golfers can both enjoy, as my friends come out of the woodwork to join me out there. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get there this passed summer, as my tee time was rained out, but I wish I could add more as a true fan of the course.

[Melvyn Morrow]

How come we don't talk more about Black Rock

Simple check out the link, and you will see it’s a two handed course - right Tom

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7TpDkSrJ0o&feature=related

Melvyn

[Brad Tufts]

Back ON topic....

I think its a combination of the things mentioned. 

1. There are many old gems in the Boston area that overshadow any new course.
2.  Good efforts by the best modern architects nearby, that also opened with a national membership flavor, where Black Rock seems like a more local-area private course.
3.  Silva still not being a nationally recognized name outside the GCA crowd, for no reason really as his work merits national recognition. 

I've only played BR once, back when the course had just opened, and I had alot of fun seeing something different.  I thought the 4th was a bit goofy, but looking back I think it would be fun to see again.  I think the committed Raynor/Silva (Ralva? Silnor?) style is interesting and unlike the other new courses we have in Mass.  Cape Cod National isn't really far enough toward the Raynor-esque style to compare to BR, but the 17th at Waverly may belong at Black Rock!

I'll have to check it out again one of these days.  I work only two towns over!

[Melvyn Morrow]

Brad

On topic, smile and relax, it’s an important part of the game and it may also help you to live longer

Have a nice day

Melvyn

[Mike Sweeney]

I have seen the construction photos of Silva's work at Southampton GC (NY) that is currently being worked on. They are in PDF format so I can't post, but people will certainly draw favorable comparisons to his work at Mountain Lake. The bunkering that I have seen from the front nine at SGC is not as geometric as Mountain Lake. The stretch of holes at Southampton from 2-8 run out to and parallel with Shinnecock and you are talking about some all Long Island holes. The back has always better flatter aka Mountain Lake so it will be interesting to see what Brian does with those.

[Jay Flemma]

He did soem well recieved work at Black Creek as well.

Of the three green monster bunker  complexes, the best is at Black Rock, the next at Red Tail Number 2, but it doesn't come into play on that hole!  You have to hit over it at Black Rock.  Silva called it an Alps hole when we played there back in '05.