[john_stiles]

Ravisloe is a shame.    I very much enjoyed my day there.   The course was fun to play with many good holes, interesting greens, refreshed bunkering by Esler.  The par 5 on the back nine was a blast.

The clubhouse was also a special treat, with a cozy locker room, exposed beams, etc.

Only played once and that was after the work by David Esler.   Quite a shame considering the quality of the course and the clubhouse.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Interesting article by Davis Sezna, developer of Hartfeld GC in PA and noted amateur golfer:

www.golfdigest.com/courses/2008/10/privateclubs_sezna

[Dan Herrmann]

John,
You're absolutely right about a newbie at a club like PV or any of the other old great clubs.  No doubts there.

But the other 98% of clubs really would welcome that new member and their family.  Times have changed, and (if you're in the 98%) if your club doesn't change, your club will suffer.

There's a club not far from me that is dying for members because they didn't change from a 1950's culture until they were down to 80 members.  They're now giving the place away and the old-timers are leaving.  A real shame, actually.

[Peter Wagner]

Strangely the high end of the private club market is in the best position to ride through this recession.  You have to think about who the members are.  Pick any high end club in your area... in most cases you'll find super rich guys that are now maybe slightly less super rich.  In many cases you'll find these are the guys making money in this economy.

Who do you think is going to buy up cheap real estate over the next 12-24 months?

No, it's not the top end that we need to worry about.

My guess is that this club in Illinois failed for some other reason.  Their members didn't all go broke at once.

[Mark Chaplin]

JK - of course a new member isn't immediately the life and soul of a club but that's what they become. I'd like to visit PV or any other club again in 30 years time and see what it's like if they do not take new members.

Clubs move on and memberships change it's a fact of life as is the change in golfer's habits. Plenty of guys only have time for a round before shooting off to the family. Not everyone wants to spend hours in the grill chatting and eating. The "car park" member has every right to use his membership how he chooses, if clubs have a problem with this then their proposers should not be putting such people foward.

[Donal Breasail]

folks you are looking way to far into this new member thing.Just be yourself and you will fit in with whatever crowd you naturally belong to.With the elite private established clubs any new member will already be friends with the current members as they are all well checked before being accepted through the pearly gates.

[John Kavanaugh]

folks you are looking way to far into this new member thing.Just be yourself and you will fit in with whatever crowd you naturally belong to.With the elite private established clubs any new member will already be friends with the current members as they are all well checked before being accepted through the pearly gates.

This new no initiation fee drag any warm body from the street is a new type of membership that is and will continue to grow rapidly.  Courses will need to be very careful not to have a run on equity when the line between public and private becomes harder and harder to find.  I'm curious what percentage of established members a club could lose before a mass exodus occurs.  I'm guessing anything over 25% and the club is toast.

[Sam Maryland]

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/business/stories/2008/11/26/economy_georgia_golf.html

interesting article from the Atlanta paper last week on the struggles of golf in general in their state...

Quote:  Last week, Lt. Gov Casey Cagle told a group of local mayors “the state of Georgia isn’t going to be in the golf business and the hotel business much longer.” Some of the state’s course will be privatized and others will be sold, Cagle said.


 

[Paul Carey]

A WSJ article on the state of private clubs:

"Country Clubs Fight an Exodus
Economic woes are straining private clubs as members flee; what they're doing to stay afloat"

A quote on members leaving private clubs:  "For instance, you hear a lot of talk about the "walkaway" risk. This is a calculation of the leverage that clubs have or don't have over members to keep them from leaving. At most clubs at least one newcomer has to join before a current member can cash in his bond, deposit or other type of equity stake and quit. If the annual dues are $7,500 and the equity stake is $20,000, most members will be inclined to stay put until a new member signs up. But if annual dues are high -- say, $12,000 or $15,000 -- and the projected clearing time on the resignation list is four years (not uncommon in this economy), some financially strapped members will choose to bail immediately."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122791013395165349.html

[Karl Bernetich]

Interesting article by Davis Sezna, developer of Hartfeld GC in PA and noted amateur golfer:

www.golfdigest.com/courses/2008/10/privateclubs_sezna

Some "interesting" info and quote ...

It's dated Oct 2000.  Hind site is 20-20.

[Jason Hines]

Good article Paul,

"For current members who want to protect their investment, I would advise getting involved on the club's boards or committees," said Jim Koppenhaver, the founder of Pellucid, a course consulting business. "At the end of the day, it's just math, and there's no way around the cash flow and reserves needed to maintain the club to the standards members are accustomed to."
Sound advice.  I recently moved to the area and joined a club that is a bit of a drive, but had a friend that was a current member.  I am paying about half of what I was used to, but timing was on my side for once.
I spend money in the clubhouse, eat the so/so food, however, I do not take carts.  My club is trying to take over the adjacent public course and trying to build memberships, I see new golf members signed up every month which kind of surprises me in this environment.  If this effort fails, I have oftened wondered if there will be the thinning of the ranks by uping dues.  So be it.

[David_Tepper]

The Yellowstone Club in Montana has filed for bankruptcy:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/us/30gated.html?hp

[A.G._Crockett]

http://www.ajc.com/search/content/business/stories/2008/11/26/economy_georgia_golf.html

interesting article from the Atlanta paper last week on the struggles of golf in general in their state...

Quote:  Last week, Lt. Gov Casey Cagle told a group of local mayors “the state of Georgia isn’t going to be in the golf business and the hotel business much longer.” Some of the state’s course will be privatized and others will be sold, Cagle said.


 

I read the article when it ran, and was very interested in the Cagle quote.  Georgia has a pretty good network of affordable state park courses; not comparable to the Trail in 'Bama, but some very good courses with excellent pricing. 

I don't know how much the state is losing on the courses, but it's hard to imagine that this is much of a budget answer for the state.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()