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Matt_Cohn

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2007, 03:32:00 AM »
Jordan,

This may be stating the obvious, but split fairways are only strategic if each side creates a compelling argument to choose, or avoid, that route.

When the pin position determines the proper fairway choice from the tee, it creates day-to-day variety, but not necessarily strategy. If there's only one good choice - and not a compelling argument for each side - then everyone will make the same choice, and it's not very strategic.

At #16 at Kapalua, is there any real choice when the pin is in the center or left side of the green? Won't you always choose the right fairway?

An ideal split fairway hole would create a 50/50 distribution...or maybe a 55/45 split, with a few extra players lured into trying the riskier shot.


PThomas

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2007, 07:18:31 AM »
the new course at We Ko Pa has one on the back side, a par 5
199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

TEPaul

Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2007, 08:54:54 AM »
In my opinion, probably the best split fairway hole ever is gone now----the 4th at Lido.

From the sound of it and the concept I say that because it is a classic "tortoise and hare" type hole.

Macdonald explained that perhaps only 10% of all golfers were capable of playing it as a two shot hole, and not just that but the high risk drive appeared to be combined with a high-risk second as well. So the tortoise, who was not capable of the high risk drive could just play the hole safe in three shots as he watched the hare try to make two back to back high risk shots for the price of the eggs at the end by making a four against the tortoise's conservative five. The deal was that if the hare erred even slightly in either of those two back to back high risk shots the tortoise would inevitably beat him.

Great stuff and true forced strategic balance in design for the tortoise.

The worst split fairway I ever saw is the 15th at Seminole.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 08:56:54 AM by TEPaul »

Jordan Wall

Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2007, 09:43:56 AM »
Tom Paul,

Didn't Mackenzie do one hole at Lido?
Maybe I am thinking of a different course but I thought he had won a competition over several other great GCA's (such as Raynor, for example) and got to design a hole at Lido.  
Did he design the split fairway?

JeffTodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2007, 10:01:26 AM »
#13 Bethpage Red where the slightly longer line of play is the riskier of the two options with the reward being a more advantageous angle of approach on the second shot.

Google Maps, BP #13

Cassandra Burns

Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2007, 11:51:56 AM »
Does teeing off from the 6th hole to the 7th fairway count?  That's my typical experience of the "split fairway."   :-\

A.G._Crockett

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2007, 12:12:18 PM »
Mike Young has a terrific split fairway at Cateechee, but I can't remember the hole # and my scorecards are at home.  (Maybe somebody can post the hole number and yardage if you have it handy.) The fairway is not only split, but there is significant elevation change between the two, with the straight option below both the tee and green, and the right side option more or less equal to the tee and green elevation.

Short par 4, possibly driveable on the lower fairway, but the green is heavily bunkered and the fairway is much below the level of the green, leaving a very difficult shot if you miss with the drive.  The upper fairway leaves a much more benign second shot, but you are playing well to the right of the green off the tee.

I'd contrast that with the 17th hole at Finley GC at UNC, where Fazio put in a par 5 split fairway, also with an elevation change, playing to a green with a 2-3 foot drop between the two levels of the green corresponding with the fairway levels.  The hole struck me as a silly gimmick the first time I saw it, and I haven't changed my mind since.  But, hey, $8 million had to do something... ::)
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

A.G._Crockett

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2007, 12:22:22 PM »
Almost forgot a favorite, the 16th at the Love Course at Myrtle Beach.  A great par 4 where the fairway is in effect split because the green is hidden behind a large mound.  There is also a marshy area in front of the tee running at an angle away to the right.

The option of playing to the right is a longer carry, but an easier second shot, the left vice versa.  I think it works great, and makes for a great hole in every respect.  

I'll post the image if somebody will tell me how.
 :(
"Golf...is usually played with the outward appearance of great dignity.  It is, nevertheless, a game of considerable passion, either of the explosive type, or that which burns inwardly and sears the soul."      Bobby Jones

Garland Bayley

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2007, 12:23:28 PM »
Does teeing off from the 6th hole to the 7th fairway count?  That's my typical experience of the "split fairway."   :-\

Some of us use this technique to experience the very rare triple fairway.  ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2007, 12:39:42 PM »
Mike Young has a terrific split fairway at Cateechee, but I can't remember the hole # and my scorecards are at home.  (Maybe somebody can post the hole number and yardage if you have it handy.) The fairway is not only split, but there is significant elevation change between the two, with the straight option below both the tee and green, and the right side option more or less equal to the tee and green elevation.

Short par 4, possibly driveable on the lower fairway, but the green is heavily bunkered and the fairway is much below the level of the green, leaving a very difficult shot if you miss with the drive.  The upper fairway leaves a much more benign second shot, but you are playing well to the right of the green off the tee.

I think it's #15, uphill, very shallow green, open from the longer, higher right fairway.  I didn't give much thought to playing straight at it as there was trouble on the direct line.  From the right side it was a short pitch down the length of the green.  Fun hole.

Jason Topp

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2007, 03:49:23 PM »
I have yet to see a split fairway that works well.  Usually, one choice is obviously superior.  Even worse, in some instances, both options stink.

I think it is difficult to anticipate in advance precisely the puts and takes of each fairway option and, if the architect is off even slightly, one of the alternatives will rarely be used.  Even if the architect gets it right, the decision will usually be difficult for only a small portion of the population who hits it a particular distance.

A diagonal hazard, or inside corner hazard is much more likely to be relevant to most players by creating a limitless number of alternatives for many different classes of golfer.


TEPaul

Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2007, 08:30:32 PM »
"Tom Paul,
Didn't Mackenzie do one hole at Lido?
Maybe I am thinking of a different course but I thought he had won a competition over several other great GCA's (such as Raynor, for example) and got to design a hole at Lido.  
Did he design the split fairway?"

Yes, Macdonald used Mackenzie's prize winning hole as his 18th at The Lido. The hole had a whole lot going on---three fairways in fact. Macdonald altered it some because the MacKenzie hole was about 200 yards wide.

Jordan Wall

Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2007, 08:40:34 PM »
Tom,

Thanks.
I had read he had designed a hole for the course but knew nothing about it.
Sounds, err, interesting to say the least!

Thanks,

Jordan

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2007, 08:41:40 PM »
Nicklaus' 3rd at Spring Creek Ranch east of Memphis is a good example.  The hole can either be played as: a) a dogleg right, reachable in two if the tee ball carries a significant rise in the fairway and then if a pond fronting the green can be carried with the second; or  b) as an almost unreachable gradual dogleg left to a green with the pond now on the left side of the green.  The fairways are split on both the first and second shot by a patch of deep woods.  

Card yardages are 577,550,518,414.  I'm guessing that's the long (right) way home.


Art Hill's 7th at Olde Stone in Bowling Green, KY is pictured below from the tee.  The hole plays as a double dog-leg, thereby mitigating the advantage gained by playing left off the tee.  Might be a better hole if the dogleg left was more pronounced (i.e., green sited left edge of fairway in the distance).  Also, the strip of rough that first separates the fairways could be maintained at fairway height to make the "safer" play a little less daunting.   As is, the tee shot is "six of one - a half-dozen of the other."  Me?  I aimed at the middle bunkers and hit it dead straight. ::)



Mike

« Last Edit: January 09, 2007, 08:54:25 PM by Bogey_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Doug Braunsdorf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2007, 12:14:57 PM »
The fifth hole at Cobb's Creek is a great example of a split fairway.  I don't know if Kyle, Cory, or Steve Shaffer have pictures from our round there back in August of '05, but the hole features the Cobb's Creek as its main hazard, which winds its way up the fairway, creating two distinct landing areas.  

Two strategies here:
The left fairway option requires the golfer to avoid the creek on the drive and the approach, as the creek proceeds up the left side of, and behind, the green.  

The less accessible landing area, to the right is currently hindered by overhanging trees up the right side, about 170 yards from the tee.  The golfer must avoid the trees which encroach on the right by playing a fade around the trees.  
The golfer will not have to carry the creek at any time if he successfully places his ball in the right-hand fairway.  The golfer also must avoid the cartpath up the right side of the hole. Hitting it brings the chance that the ball will be lost in the woods to the right of the hole.  

Better maintenance on this hole would make it all the stronger, as I do not recall the green providing any specific advantage to approaching from one direction or the other.  

"Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction."

Mike Benham

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Re:Split Fairways
« Reply #40 on: October 13, 2008, 01:21:25 AM »

Actually from what I have read, it seems they are over used. I have read that JN uses them on most design.



I recently played the split fairway 11th hole at Cabo del Sol Ocean course and found it a very good hole.




Playing 344 yards from the Gold Tee, the narrower left fairway is easily reachable and leaves a short pitch to hole in the left side of the green.  The right fairway has more width but perhaps a longer shot depending on the hole location.

The challenging aspect to the approach shot is the deep pot bunker and the ridge running through the green. 

A hole location right behind the bunker suggests no advantage to either fairway, a difficult pitch from either left or right.

After thinking about the hole a bit, I would like another crack at it from a shorter tee, it could be a world class short, potentially drivable par-4, where the golfer would have to shape the ball, or play the fairway contours, to get the ball on the green.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Ian_L

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Split Fairways
« Reply #41 on: October 13, 2008, 03:47:38 AM »
Here's an interesting one at Playacar Golf Club in Mexico.  One thing I think they have done well is positioning the more forward tees to make both options available to most golfers.

530 black
489 blue
443 white

From the white and blue tees it's definitely possible for a good drive down the left fairway to roll into the water (very fast fairways).


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