Discussion with Pete Dye!

[Mark_Fine]

I had the opportunity last week to hear Pete Dye talk and to speak with him one on one during a media day at Bulle Rock.  Here are just a few things he had to say:

1) When asked about why he builds 7600 yard golf courses, his comment was, "Because the collective brain power of the USGA and the ball manufacturers is about that of a weed"!  Pete feels the pros should revert back to a 1980 golf ball otherwise courses will just keep getting longer and more expensive.

2) When asked what to do about the classic courses, his comment was, "Leave them alone"!  

3) When asked about his thoughts on Bethpage Black, his comment was, "That is a Rees Jones course if I ever saw one.  It sure doesn't look like Tillinghast"!  

I don't have time to post more, but I will say I found Pete very interesting to listen to and speak with.  I had met him once before at Blackwolf Run but didn't have as much time to talk with him as I did here.  
Mark

Final note:  Don't ever say hi to Pete carrying a Stimp meter or he'll try to choke you with it!  He hates the darn things and feel they are helping further ruin the game of golf.  Said when Hogan won his last Open, the greens were rolling at probably 5 and the pros today would have more trouble putting slow undulating greens than slick less contoured ones.   He says he's had to rebuild his greens at Crooked Stick three times to reduce contour because of the new grasses and need for speed!  

[Will W]

oh boy, did you ask pete dye if he played bethpage before making his pronouncement?

[Mike_Cirba]

So, Pete hit 3 for 3 out of the park, huh?  

Pretty good batting average.

[Brian Phillips]

Sounds to me that Pete is right on the ball when it comes to Bethpage because it is a Rees Jones design.  

I will say it again and again but the redesign looks nothing like the air photo taken in 1937 or whatever year it is in the Tillie book.

Brian

[GUEST]

Why is it that the only people who say the Black course looks different comes from those who have never seen or played the course?

Every regular who has first hand knowledge of Bethpage says otherwise.

Strange indeed    

[Bruceski]

Will someone with the 1938 Bethpage Black aerial please scan the damn thing and post it so that the rest of us can make up our own minds?

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm not sure why I should respond to someone posting as "Guest", but I don't want the impression left that I haven't played the Black course (prior to Rees's involvement).  

Guest; Are you suggesting that nothing changed?  

It seems to me that a LOT of good work was done, as well as some bunker shaping that might be fairly called excessive, or over-stylized.  I think Dye's point is that it now looks much more like a Rees Jones course (because of the number and prominence of the bunkers that bear his style) than a Tillinghast course.  I know it doesn't look like it did when I played it (in other ways, it's much better), or like any other Tillinghast course I've played.  It HAS changed.  I don't think that's somehow unfair to Rees...he seems rather fond of his style, wouldn't you agree?

FYI.  Other than responding to the assertion that no one who comments on Bethpage has played it, I'm off this issue.  If anyone wants to debate what they look like, please find someone else to engage with.  

[Joel_Stewart]

Pete said more to Mark in 2 minutes then his entire interview with Ran.  

I still can't understand why Pete holds such reverence for the classic courses and builds such modern on the edge courses.

[J_Olsen]

Bravo Pete!

Joel, isn't Pete's "modern" style the most classically influenced of all? Even when he goes down in flames, he does so in pursuit of the playing features of Scotland and Ireland and perhaps overdoes it a bit.

[Mark_Fine]

Just got back on.  Pete had lots to say and was very candid.  He talked about getting a call (actually Alice is the one they wanted) from the Greens Committee of a classic course asking her to come out and help them "restore" their golf course.  Knowing which course it was (Pete elected to hold back the name) Alice told them she would be interested in helping them "only after they cut down all the trees".  When they hemed and hawed, she told them to call back when the trees were taken down and hung up the phone!  

Pete talked at length about the ball and how it is ruining the game of golf.  At the same time he said he is a fool to think they will do anything about it!  Pete thinks the lure of lush green grass ala Augusta is also ruining the game and just running up the price tag golfers must pay to play the game.   Said too many courses want to look like that!  He'd love to see conditions return to years past but realizes this is highly unlikely.  

Pete said "greensites" are one of the first things he looks for on a new site.  Said he also loves courses that won't be surrounded by houses and loves the idea of a "pure golf club".  

Adding to J. Olsen's comment, Pete said he prides himself on building courses based on "classic design principles".  He believes golfers love a challenge and likes to create interest in every golf shot.  He also credits the superintendents with much of the ultimate success of course.  

I liked the way he ended the question and answer session.  While hands were still in the air to continue the discussion, he said, "You guys are stalling.  It's not that bad.  Come on, get out there and give it a go and don't blame me if you shoot a 100 or so"!  

[TEPaul]

Will W:

You've got a good point there about Pete saying such negative and biased things about Rees and Bethpage being a Rees course if he hasn't played the course.

Pete has totally violated Pat Mucci's architectural dictate that you must play the course before saying anything about it's merit! What "FACTS" does Pete have if he hasn't played the course and possibly in every conceivable wind condition?

I mean how can Pete say such things without the FACTS? Who the hell does he think he is--an architect??

[brad_miller]

GO PETE GO! Wonder if he would be so candid in a full interview?

[Mark_Fine]

Pete did a number of interviews after he gave his little talk about Bulle Rock.  Watch the local golf publications over the next few weeks for some of his comments that get published.  

[Mark_Fine]

By the way, no one asked Pete if he played The Black or not.  I doubt he would make those comments if he didn't have some knowledge of the golf course!  He does know a little bit about golf architecture   although if you somehow didn't know of him and listened to him talk, you might think otherwise.  At one point he said something along the lines of, "I'm surprised they asked me to come in here and design this place given I don't do any drawings or plans or the like".  The owner of Bulle Rock also explained that when he asked Pete if he would be sending him a contract to sign for the job, Pete just stuck out his hand and said, "Here is my contract".  I was impressed!
Mark