[Dean Stokes]

Dean,

Vijay got to number 1 while Tiger was undergoing swing changes. He was not getting there before Tiger embarked on that attempt to get better. Vijay would impress me more if he would say I putted poorly under difficult conditions and I have set up a program with X to improve.

IMO it is not thoughtful to make public complaints after you have exposed your failings. A thoughtful person would realize that kind of display would fall on mostly deaf ears.

Have you ever heard Vijay speak out about the poor set up of a tournament's greens before? No. This from a guy who has putted badly for years now.  Knowing what I've heard about Vijay from the press and from tour players I know, I would suspect Vijay's points have some validity.

I would suspect there were many more murmorings in the locker room from guys who wish they dare speak out like Vijay does - maybe then great golf courses like OH wouldn't be ruined with a crappy set up.

[Tom Huckaby]

I thought contoured greens favored bad putters?!!!

Whoever would say such an outlandish thing?  Bad putters are bad putters no matter where.

Now if you want to state that highly-contoured greens act as an equalizer between good and bad putters, such that the gap is narrowed between them in terms of total putts taken, well then that would be genius.

 

[Garland Bayley]

Are you people that are siding with Vijay reading what he said? Let me refresh your memory.

In reference to the greens, "Maybe they should have been bulldozed, too", Singh said.

You can argue that the green speeds were too fast, which may or may not be, but "thoughtful" Vijay suggests they be bulldozed. What validity is there in that? Is he a better course designer than Ross? Than Rees even?

[Dean Stokes]

Are you people that are siding with Vijay reading what he said? Let me refresh your memory.

In reference to the greens, "Maybe they should have been bulldozed, too", Singh said.

You can argue that the green speeds were too fast, which may or may not be, but "thoughtful" Vijay suggests they be bulldozed. What validity is there in that? Is he a better course designer than Ross? Than Rees even?

He might be Garland, do you know that he's not? He was obviously in a feisty mood and this was his way of stating the greens were way too fast for their contours.

I'm sure if you met Vijay on a range tomorrow and as a Golf course architectural expert as your self, were to ask him "what did you mean by that"? he would tell you the greens needed slowing down to play as they were intended by the architect.

The course was wrecked by yet another fella who has no idea about architecture and how to protect par.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Garland makes a great point.

Trust me, it's not the contour and slope within the greens at Oakland Hills that's a problem. They're very, very interesting greens. It's a combination of green speed and the general narrowness of the course which makes Vijay suggest one of the most imaginative and interesting collections of putting surfaces in the world should be "bulldozed".

Don't do it. The problem can be solved more simply by slowing the greens down and returning some important angles of approach, off fairway height turf. 

[Dean Stokes]

Garland makes a great point.

Trust me, it's not the contour and slope within the greens at Oakland Hills that's a problem. They're very, very interesting greens. It's a combination of green speed and the general narrowness of the course which makes Vijay suggest one of the most imaginative and interesting collections of putting surfaces in the world should be "bulldozed".

Don't do it. The problem can be solved more simply by slowing the greens down and returning some important angles of approach, off fairway height turf. 

So what your saying Jeff is the course was set up terribly? The greens were too fast, the fairways were too narrow and the rough was grown in the wrong areas. Good job PGA!!!!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Dean,

It's a combination of set-up and architecture.

RTJ took away strategic angles at Oakland Hills-South more than half a century ago. This has nothing to do with the PGA of America. I wasn't putting the greens during the PGA Championship, but there seems to be a lot of complaint that the greens were too difficult. To that, I simply say, it's not the slope and contour within the greens at Oakland Hills, it's that they were putting too fast.

I'd hate to see those great greens destroyed because knowledgable, talented green-keepers are able to achieve 14-foot measurements on the (beloved) Stimp-meter! Slow 'em down.

[Garland Bayley]

Garland makes a great point.

Trust me, it's not the contour and slope within the greens at Oakland Hills that's a problem. They're very, very interesting greens. It's a combination of green speed and the general narrowness of the course which makes Vijay suggest one of the most imaginative and interesting collections of putting surfaces in the world should be "bulldozed".

Don't do it. The problem can be solved more simply by slowing the greens down and returning some important angles of approach, off fairway height turf. 

So what your saying Jeff is the course was set up terribly? The greens were too fast, the fairways were too narrow and the rough was grown in the wrong areas. Good job PGA!!!!

It's really no different than what the USGA has been doing for years. Can you say Shinnecock?

Patrick had a thread up about designing for a major. I said my design would be over 8500 yards and wide. Here's another take on it. Take a digital mapping of OH. Digitally stretch it to over 8500 yards from the tees. Notice that the stretching would increase the width in proportion to the increased length. That's my design. Forget the rough. Keep the angles. I doubt there would be any birdie fests as the someone suggested would happen to such a design. Are they going to birdie OH holes hitting long irons and hybrids to all the greens? Maybe someone would like to borrow Ben Hogan's one iron for some of their approaches.

[MargaretC]

Garland, did Vijay not become #1 ranked player in the world while Tiger was out there playing full time? I believe he did but I'm not sure. How many other players since Tiger came out on the tour have achieved that?

Vijay speaks thoughtfully and rarely does he complain. He is one of the most liked golfer out there by the other players and I am fairly sure his thoughts hold some value.

Dean:

Vijay missed the cut at OH and didn't he also miss the cut last week?  That has to be hard on a player of his calibre.  I'm not defending his words.  It would be ludicrous to demolish those greens.  Vijay hasn't struck me as a whiner.  I don't doubt that the greens were incredibly fast and possibly too fast -- I have no idea.

I never had a strong opinion of Vijay one way or another, but last year at Oakmont in the final round, he was one of the few golfers who acknowledged the gallery as he walked the fairway and approached the 18th green.  I realize that he wasn't in contention at that point, but he still didn't have to do it -- the majority of the rest of the golfers barely acknowledged the gallery.  I was favorably impressed by his behavior.

I have to believe that missing the last two cuts has left Vijay a bit raw.

Meg

[Will MacEwen]

I don't think of Vijay as a typical pampered whiny player.  I don't think any other player has worked harder and started with fewer advantages than Singh.  He can pop off now and then and I'll give him a pass.

[David Neveux]

My boy Paddy had em figured out, Back to Back 66 on the weekend. 

[Tom_Doak]

Vijay is a pretty thoughtful player about architecture, generally speaking.  I know he spoke to the Tour and to Pete Dye a lot about the TPC at Sawgrass, because he practices around it all the time, pointing out how the waste bunkers weren't doing what Pete intended them to do.  And they changed a bunch of them, mostly on the strength of Vijay's comments.

That said, he can't putt worth a lick, and he is never going to like any course where the greens have a lot of nasty contour.  How'd he do at Oakmont last year?  He probably just didn't complain because too many people were having a love-fest about how great that event was, or maybe he did complain but nobody was listening.

I thought the rain on Saturday at Oakland Hills saved the golf course and made the set-up okay.  Of course, Vijay was not around for the weekend ... maybe he would have liked it better if he had been.  My point being, Vijay was complaining about Thursday and Friday, and all of you who are rebutting him are talking about Sunday.

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks Tom,

The way Vijay has informed about Sawgrass is what I value and call thoughtful. Your point about Thur/Fri vs Sat/Sun is well taken, but I don't think popping off in front to the national media about bulldozing greens is thoughtful.

[Tom_Doak]

Garland:  I agree with you there.  If I ever build that course for the Tour, Vijay's comments about Oakland Hills' greens just put him off the short list of candidates for my design consultant.

[Dean Stokes]

Another awful week on the greens for the Big Fijian that "can't putt worth a lick"

Perhaps it's a good thing for the rest of the tour. Does this in any way validate his comments on OH greens. I didn't hear him complain about Ridgewoods.......

[Evan_Green]

Vijay's comment after the tourney on Ridgewood for whatever its worth:

"It's a great golf course," said Singh, the 1993, 1995 and 2006 winner at Westchester. "Westchester was a good golf course. This tops Westchester. Every single player out there absolutely enjoyed this golf course."

[Tim Liddy]

Vijay is so typically of the majority of players on the tour.  The golf course must fit his game.  He is one of the longest on tour.  Give him a long straight fairway and he loves it. Turn a fairway short of his driving area and he thinks the golf course is bad.

Just because he is loud and opinionated does not make his views correct.  His opinion is not one I would consider valuable about golf course design.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

You're right - Veej can't putt a lick. Did you see the putt he drained ON TOP of the one Sergio made at Ridgewood yesterday. Not bad for a poor putter. One other thing -- the greens at Augusta -- where he has won -- aren't exactly poor putter friendly.

Tom -- please don't throw me into the pool with those who bark at Veej for his comments on the first 36 holes of the PGA. I made it a point to say that while others roasted Veejf for the weekend conditions of which he was not present.

I do concur with you -- generally Veej is quite thoughtful about what he says even when others see it differently. I applaud his desire to be forthright.

Tim Liddy:

Quite the contrary -- I give Veejf high marks for being candid when most players simply say nothing or provide so much tone down that's nothing more than vanilla PC.

Veej speaks candidly and will get nailed because of it. He spoke very highly of Ridgewood and his commentson OH/S were on the minds of many other players at the PGA but were not said because of the natural reaction from others.

I salute Veej because he speaks his peace -- you may not like him or his specific comments -- even I disagree with him at times -- but I do appreciate his candor because so much of what constitutes itself as dialogue and interviews says little, if anything, of meaning.

[Dean Stokes]

Vijay is so typically of the majority of players on the tour.  The golf course must fit his game.  He is one of the longest on tour.  Give him a long straight fairway and he loves it. Turn a fairway short of his driving area and he thinks the golf course is bad.

Just because he is loud and opinionated does not make his views correct.  His opinion is not one I would consider valuable about golf course design.

Tim, I believe Frank Nobilo said last night on the golf channel that Vijay has now won at 17 different events. I would say his game carries to many different course types wouldn't you?

In fact I would say that Vijay is very untypical of the majority of tour players in that he actually plays everywhere - not only where he thinks his game is suited. Maybe I'm completely wrong again though.

[Jason McNamara]

Tim, I believe Frank Nobilo said last night on the golf channel that Vijay has now won at 17 different events. I would say his game carries to many different course types wouldn't you?

Actually it's more like upper 20s.  He has 33 Tour wins, though some are duplicates (Houston - 3 wins on 2 courses - and 3 wins at the Michigan Buick).  Then add the Euro Tour venues.  Sure he does well on "hit it straight and far" courses, but he's also won at Waialae, Westchester, and Pebble. 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()