[Ron Farris]

Curious to know the greatest elevation change people have seen from the back tee to the designated landing area.  Yesterday I saw 110' climb in elevation -- Not what I would consider a great "Walk".

I thought 10% change would exhaust the masses, but maybe it is irrelevant with cart golf considerations

[Bill_McBride]

Ron, just played Elie south of St Andrews.  It's famous for having such a steep hill to carry on the first tee shot that the starter has a periscope he looks through that lets him see over the crest to be sure it's safe for the next group to hit their tee balls!

Here's the hill, which is probably 60' above the level of the tee - which by the way isn't level but actually slopes up to help the player get that first drive of the day up in the air!



And here's that famous periscope sticking up out of the starter's hut next to the clubhouse:

[Brent Hutto]

The first five holes at Pitlochry climb from approximate 530' elevation to 820' over a linear distance of less than 1,200 yards. So that's well over 8% grade for the first hour or so of your round, not counting the 20' or so of steps leading from the clubhouse to the first tee box. And after you play the first hole and hit a shot from the second tee you actually go down into a little low area and back up so it's more like 10% from the second fairway to fifth green. But I don't know of any specific tee shot that has to go uphill more than 30-40 feet to get to the fairway, some of the big rises are fairway to green and green to next tee.

Nobody there uses carts, though, except for a few older members who use personal one seaters with a doctor's letter. Let me tell you, when the wind is from the north and right into your face for four of those holes (the Par 3 fourth is crosswise to the others) you feel like you've played uphill for more like 3,000 feet than 300. It the longest damned five holes you've ever seen on a "short" 5,800 yard course.

[SPDB]

I don't know what the plans are for building up the new back tee on the 4th at Pine Valley that was recently approved by the state, but it looks to be a severely uphill shot.

[Bryan Izatt]

Ron,

So, where is this course? 

Biggest ones I've seen are in the neighbourhood of 60 to 90 feet of elevation, Bond Head North 6th hole, Gourock 1st hole, and Gullane #2 3rd hole. 

Bond Head is like driving into a wall before the ball reaches the apogee of its flight.

Gourock has the largest rise, but it's over a 476 yard par 5.  A long uphill trudge to exhaustion on the first hole.  No carts.

Gullane is rather abruptly uphill.  You need to hit it straight up.  Or, being Scotland, bump and run is an option.  Again, no carts.

Bill,

Elie is a pipsqueak compared to these monsters.  I'd estimate Elie at no more than 30 or 35 feet.











 

[RJ_Daley]

As I remember, that first hole at Sky course at Lost Canyons is pretty steep... maybe 60 ft on a short par 4. 

[Adrian_Stiff]

Painswick 1st. It rises 75 feet in about 170 yards. Feels like a 1000 feet though!

[Ally Mcintosh]

I asked this question a while ago... I was wondering whether a 10% rise would work... Having recently played Gullane 2, I'd guess that 3rd hole must be 10% or even more...

And I'm afraid I agree with Bryan that you are way off with Elie, Bill... Just look at the height of the periscope?... He needs to see over the hill after all and the hill does fall on the other side (i.e. it doesn't keep rising thus reducing the height needed for the scope)

[Jim Nugent]

Curious to know the greatest elevation change people have seen from the back tee to the designated landing area.  Yesterday I saw 110' climb in elevation -- Not what I would consider a great "Walk".

I thought 10% change would exhaust the masses, but maybe it is irrelevant with cart golf considerations

I would love to see a picture of that hole, looking up the fairway from the back tees.

Something that puzzles me about this hole.  Here is a quote I saw today, about how high PGA touring pro's hit their tee shots:

"ShotLink data includes radar readings this year that offer a host of interesting facts. For example, Robert Garrigus hits the highest tee shots of anyone on TOUR—an average of 123 feet 5 inches at its apex. At the other end of the spectrum, Shane Bertsch hits the lowest tee shots on TOUR—63 feet 1 inch. The TOUR average is 89 feet 7 inches."

If the tour average is 89' 7", and the landing zone on this hole is 110', even many of the best players in the world don't hit the ball high enough to reach the landing zone.  Actually, sounds like very few of them could reach the LZ.

Are you sure about the 110' figure? 
 

[Tom_Doak]

Ron F:

As it happens, I played Kawana in Japan this morning.  The third hole is a 450 yard par 5 with a 120-foot climb between tee and green; seventeenth a 410-yard par 4 with 95 feet of rise.  [I only know the numbers because they have cross-section drawings and elevations in the yardage book.]

I don't think I've ever seen a course with a 110-foot climb in one shot.  I hear there are a couple of really severe ones at The Sanctuary in Denver, but I don't know the numbers.  Our old buddy Scott Pool has built a couple, too.

[Bill_McBride]

I asked this question a while ago... I was wondering whether a 10% rise would work... Having recently played Gullane 2, I'd guess that 3rd hole must be 10% or even more...

And I'm afraid I agree with Bryan that you are way off with Elie, Bill... Just look at the height of the periscope?... He needs to see over the hill after all and the hill does fall on the other side (i.e. it doesn't keep rising thus reducing the height needed for the scope)

Well it certainly seemed like 60' - 

[TEPaul]

"I don't know what the plans are for building up the new back tee on the 4th at Pine Valley that was recently approved by the state, but it looks to be a severely uphill shot."


Sean:


Believe it or not, the climb from where the new 4th tee is slated to go isn't as much as one might suppose (at least it doesn't look like it for hitting a shot once you get back there). Looking up from back there one realizes that land to the right from back there up is a bit more of a "cut" than one might suspect. The added distance really will be effective for keeping the good and strong player more up on top of the hill but the only design glitch I can see with that new tee is the bother of walking all the way back there from the 3rd green and all the way back up. One of the design themes Geo Crump was somewhat fixated on is keeping the green to next tee as tight as possible.

[Bryan Izatt]

Ally,

As best I can estimate it the grade at Gullane would be around 13 - 15%. Hard to imagine, but Ron's hole sounds like it would be up around 17 - 20%.

[Ron Farris]

Tom Doak - Ogenki Deska?

I strongly remember Kawana as I actually birdied the hole you referred to in your post.
Interesting that you would be in that part of the world.  Kawana was a wonderful place for us to visit while we lived in Japan, albeit a little expensive.

[JohnV]

The 14th hole at Montour Heights just outside Pittsburgh has a huge elevation change.  Also the 8th hole there.

This thread from a few years ago has some pictures of 14: http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,23399.0.html

Neither of these show the entire climb as tee to the landing area pictures is probably another 20-30 feet minimum.

There are plenty of uphill holes around Pittsburgh.  Some that come to mind are #2 and #6 at Sunnehanna, #9 at Oakmont climbs pretty steeply, #4 and #16 at Allegheny, #15 at Longue Vue, #18 at Willowbrook #4 at Quicksilver ...

[SPDB]

"I don't know what the plans are for building up the new back tee on the 4th at Pine Valley that was recently approved by the state, but it looks to be a severely uphill shot."


Sean:


Believe it or not, the climb from where the new 4th tee is slated to go isn't as much as one might suppose (at least it doesn't look like it for hitting a shot once you get back there). Looking up from back there one realizes that land to the right from back there up is a bit more of a "cut" than one might suspect. The added distance really will be effective for keeping the good and strong player more up on top of the hill but the only design glitch I can see with that new tee is the bother of walking all the way back there from the 3rd green and all the way back up. One of the design themes Geo Crump was somewhat fixated on is keeping the green to next tee as tight as possible.

Tom:
They must be putting a ton of fill back there to build the tee, because the road must be at least 20-30 feet below the back of the current tee and I assume the new tee will be across not only the road but the wetland area just on the other side of the road?

[Paul Stephenson]

Ron, just played Elie south of St Andrews.  It's famous for having such a steep hill to carry on the first tee shot that the starter has a periscope he looks through that lets him see over the crest to be sure it's safe for the next group to hit their tee balls!

Here's the hill, which is probably 60' above the level of the tee - which by the way isn't level but actually slopes up to help the player get that first drive of the day up in the air!



And here's that famous periscope sticking up out of the starter's hut next to the clubhouse:

I read that the periscope is from a U-Boat.  Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[Tim Nugent]

Jim Nugent - on most uphill holes have tee that are also sloped uphill. We did a hole at Makelei Hawaii CC (they play it as #1 -we had it as #3) was significantly straight uphill(I'd have to get out the plans to get the actual elev.) and the tees where about 3' higher in front than back but since the actual ground is more severely sloped, the tees "look" flat.  So add these slopes to the starting plane of the tee and the angle they hit the ball is greater.  Plus, those guys can elevate any shot if they need to - those were "averages".

[mike_beene]

How much does 4 at Plantation rise?I have hit it into the hill more than once.

[Jim Nugent]

Do any holes at ANGC make the list?  Everyone talks about the great elevation changes there, and Lee Trevino used to complain that his low-ball tee shots couldn't carry the hills. 

Tim, thanks for the post.  I never knew that about the tees on uphill holes.  I get what you say about pro's able to elevate their shots when they need to.  Still, can the guy who averages 63 feet increase his trajectory by 75%? 

That 110 foot figure seems so big, I'd like to make sure it's accurate. 

[David_Madison]

#10 at Alpine... haven't seen it for some time, but it stands out as being the most severe uphill tee shot I've ever played. It's been mentioned on here before as being pretty special in this regard.

[Mike_Cirba]

The original 6th hole at Cobb's Creek rose 95 feet in the first 150 yards, which is the most dramatic change I've ever seen (only because you can still "see" it today during the winter when the leaves are off the trees that have overgrown the original fairway).

It made the 18th hole tee to landing area elevation changes at Merion and Riviera look like little speed bumps.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()