[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

A tournament hosted on the last day the club is open, and out of season is hardly representative of the dual personality you suggest.

The course doesn't become "READY" in one day, REVERTING to normal play the next day.  There are entry and exit time periods that the course must transition through.  

At Seminole it's easy, no one is there and the course closes right after the tournament.

Try to find a northern course, in season with the Jekyll and Hyde personality you champion.

It doesn't happen.

A course doesn't intentionally yo-yo itself back and forth between firm and soft greens during the summer season for non-agronomic reasons.

However, if you could cite some northern golf courses that intentionally transition themselves back and forth during the
season for non-agronomic reasons it would be helpful.

Mark Fine,

Playing golf in 50 degree temperatures, combined with 25 mile an hour winds and rain, isn't quite the same as playing in the previous two day's conditions, and comparisons of ball flight and distance have to be viewed as strictly functions of adverse weather.

[TEPaul]

Patrick:

You'll notice on that subject I said "the deal is in the degree".

Courses I know in the north that can have a significant "dual personality" with tournament set up vs normal member play set up that have real differences in playability are:

1. Merion--Hugh Wilson Tourney
2. Pine Valley--The Crump Cup
3. GMGC--A.J. Drexel Paul Cup
4. Torresdale Frankford--Kerwin Cup

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

Almost every club in the world "preps" itself for tournaments, but that's a far cry from altering the day to day conditions for the membership.

[JSlonis]

I'm not quite so sure what the driver's role is in golf today...but I sure can tell you what the Driver's role ISN"T...

It absolutely isn't to be in the hands of any FRENCH golfer on the last tee of an OPEN Championship. For God's sake guys...put those things away and rifle a 2 Iron.  The best part of today's telecast was listening to Curtis Strange trying to bite his tounge, lips, and anything else he could get his teeth on!  You can say one thing about the French tour player, they LOSE very well...Levet seemed alot happier than I would have been after Ernie canned his putt.

[Bruceski]

All true Frenchmen surrender in the face of victory...

Levet didn't let us down.

[TEPaul]

Jamie:

You're right with Levet's club selection and Curtis--it must have seemed like a deja vu to Curtis after the Van de Velde situation which evoked an on air comment I'll never forget--something to the effect, "Are we really seeing this...."?

With Levet it may have been one of two things; He probably  reasoned that kind of course management had gotten him that far so why change now?

But the actual truth is at the eleventh hour no kind of sensible management in anything, much less golf, can possibly stand a change against "Gallic verve"!

It's really no different than a Frenchman propositioning an American women--to them the whole thing's a tossup--half the time they get lucky, half the time they get decked--that's life--and they can live with it!

Bruceski:

It would seem so sometimes wouldn't it? However, with Levet it would be hard to say he surrendered! It looked to me like he went down with both barrels blasting!

[Mark_Fine]

Pat,
We all know, The Open is played during the "friendliest" time of the year to play links golf!  We also know, that links golf courses are defenseless when their are no elements (wind, rain,...) to deal with.  

I've played dozens and dozens of links golf courses in the British Isles over the years and the majority of them in weather that most Americans wouldn't even consider playing golf in.  I remember being at Lytham one time and it was raining sideways and the wind was howling.  I was getting ready to have another pint when my English playing partner looked at me and said, "You better drink that fast, because we're on the tee"!  

Heck if golfers didn't play in those kind of conditions, the number of rounds played in the U.K. would be cut in half!

Actually, I think the Open should be suspended on the days when there is no wind  

Mark

[Matt_Ward]

shivas:

Have to disagree with you. What decision-making was involved for the world's best?

I'm getting tired of the same trite set-up in which you have a sliver of fairway and then HAY. So, what do most sane professional HAVE to do in order to score properly they play the iron game off the tee because there's no real gain in hitting a driver. One simple word for that B-O-R-I-N-G ! Remember the days of Seve at Lytham when he was wide on the mark with the driver but the elegance of his recoveries sparked so much interest in the BO. Let's not forget the heyday of a young Tom Watson and his ability to hit driver, sometimes wide on the mark and then recover from such predicaments.

Why can't these set-ups have at least 2-3 holes where the temptation to hit driver is present? And, I'm not just speaking about temptations on par-5 holes. That's why I've always loved The Open when it's at TOC.

The driver is fundamental to the game. I can see having a wide mixture of holes that call for the usage of different clubs but at some point you have to have course set-ups that put that "temptation" to use the big stick. Watching everyone grab an iron -- hit to the same point and go from there to the green is just robotic golf.  

When you have HAY all you have is pitch out to the fairway. Does the R&A get it??? Even Bethpage with its dense rough did give players an opportunity to advance the ball near enough to the target.

Yes, accurate driving is essential at any major championship but it's time to reevaluate the purpose and effect this is having on using the club, I believe, besides the putter, is the most important one in the bag and deserves to be a viable option.

[Dave_Miller]

Matt Ward:

Could not agree with you more.  The use of this hay feature is getting out of control.  

Players have no option if they wish to score.

All of a sudden everyone wants to look like Scotland.  Even Scotland is overdoing it with the severe penalties from the hay.

The old course designers understood the word recovery and the possibility of still being able to score.

Where would Seve had been in his prime if his recovery possibilities were lost in something that belongs in a barn.

Fairways and Greens,

Dave

[Paul_Turner]

I like Tom Paul's Gallic verve comment.  Levet and Van de Velde think, it's not what you do, but how you do it!  Good on 'em.  

Wouldn't golf be boring if everyone were as robotic as Faldo and Strange in their prime?

[Mark_Fine]

Plenty of players hit driver and besides, wasn't it nice to see the best players in the world have to hit long irons for a change instead of wedges all day!!!  I have not read this whole post but I believe it was the bunkers that placed more fear in the players than the "hay".  

[Rick Shefchik]

Either the bunkers or the rough could be, in effect, a one-stroke penalty, but from what I saw, there was more to fear from a fairway bunker than from the rough. At least in the rough you could decide in which direction to play your next shot. As was seen with Mr. Harrington, that decision was often made for you in the bunkers -- and not often to your benefit.

I played Sunday afternoon on my home course and couldn't avoid thinking how benign the average U.S. fairway bunker is. You might not make par from them, but they don't preclude the possibility of getting near the green. Hit into a fairway bunker over there, and you're dead. We should try that more often over here.

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