[Brad Tufts]

My second rumination of the evening:

I played 36 on my b-day day off on Friday at Pinehills in Plymouth, MA.

There are two courses there, one by Rees Jones, and one by the Nicklaus group.  I find that the Rees course is not quite as good as the Nicklaus, which seems to be the local consensus as well.  Many of the holes at the Rees course are built up from their surrounds, severely affecting playability.  The Nicklaus is built into the land somewhat more skillfully, and even though there are seemingly the same cuts and fills, they are disguised.

I think the Nickalus is easily in the top 5 publics in MA, whereas the Rees is in the 10-15 ranked catergory.  Neither are terribly strategic, which is a bit depressing that they are this high among MA publics, but regardless, they are two pretty good challenges.

What do the MA contingent (and anyone who has stopped by) think of the two courses and their place in MA or N. England golf?  Are they underrated? Overrated?  Solid?

They are often two of the first courses to open off-Cape each year, so their prominence at this time of the year is noteworthy.....

[Cliff Hamm]

Have only played the Nicklaus course.  One time last fall.  Frankly, I was disappointed.  Expected it to be at the very top of NE golf and while solid there are a few courses I've enjoyed more.  Nothing especially memorable and the housing, which is quickly multiplying, took away from the experience. The price is also at the top end of NE public. Accolades to the ranger, however.  Had an incredibly slow group ahead of us and for a change the ranger spoke with them and allowed us to play thru.

Courses I've enjoyed more include: Newport National, Red Tail, Blackstone National, and Waverly Oaks.  While the architectural merits are perhaps debatable I find these 4 more enjoyable and memorable.  Newport National and Red Tail I do think most knowledgeable golfers would rank higher than Pinehills Nicklaus.

BTW noticed your engagement notice in the Globe a few weeks back.  Congratulations!!!

[Jim Sweeney]

PLayed both on the same day 2 years ago. Brad, I agree with your assessment vis-a-vis the Nicklaus vs. the Jones, though I must admit that back then there was much more encroachment from housing on the Jones. I prefer Waverly to the two, but I am on ly there in the summer and Pinehills seems to be more available. I have not played enough other courses in the area to compare.

Of course, there is a newer course very nearby but access is neigh impossible- Old Sandwich.

One must admit that golf on the South Shore has improved immeasureably in the past ten years, both public and private.

[Greg Stebbins]

My parents live on the 16th hole of the Nicklaus course so I've had the chance to play both courses a few times.  They are both solid public courses that are challenging, but very playable.  The one caveat for me is that the distance between greens and tees is long on almost every hole and therefore carts are necessary to play.  This alone takes the courses down a few notches for me.

I agree that the Nicklaus course is the better of the two.  The Jones course has a few bad holes like 11, 12 and the 250 yard all-carry 14th.  Its sits on hillier property which seems to be used to create better photo opportunities than golf holes. 

The Nicklaus course has no real flaws, but no real memorable holes at the same time.  Holes I do like include the 6th which is a par 5 that makes you think when going for it in two, the short par-4 14th and an adaptation of the bottle hole on #17 that works fairly well.  The 18th is the worst hole on the course as I'm not fond of a blind water hazard 260 yards from the tee. 

The courses have a great practice area with a bunch of short game greens and huge grass range.  Its worth it to get there early to take advantage of this. 

The surrounding community is really coming along and people really like living there.   With very few exceptions, the houses are out of play from the holes while still giving property owners views of the holes. 

I have had the good fortune to play Old Sandwich (which is not far from the 11th hole on the Nicklaus course) and I can confirm that it is a special place.  I played it the day before I played Brookline and I enjoyed Old Sandwich far more. 

[Tim Gavrich]

I have played both in competition and think much more highly of the Nicklaus course.  The par 4s on the Jones course can be summed up as follows:

1. Fairway bunker(s) on one side
2. Greenside bunker(s) on opposite side
3. Repeat

I am usually able to remember golf holes pretty well, even if it's been a couple years since I've played the course.  I can remember at least half of the holes on the Nicklaus course.  I am struggling to recall three different holes on the Jones...

[Brad Tufts]

Yeah, I like Waverly better as well. 

Funny that the MA courses mentioned are also what I rate higher than P-Nicklaus.

I noticed this time playing the Rees that every hole seemed that the fairway was scooped from the edges to 5-6 feet higher than the fill.  If you miss the fairways, the ball runs off into oblivion.  Yes you should hit them, but it becomes monotonous.

I'm amazed that the glacially-carved land in Plymouth and on the Cape has not been used for a Strantz-like crater and blind shots-type course.  I have not played BGC or OS as of yet, so they might more fit the bill.  The land does fit the Silva Raynor-influenced style at WO better than the styles used at Pinehills.

I asked the question because I was thinking of whether I would be satisfied living there and playing there every day.  I couldn't figure out if that would be something I would like to do or not.  Obviously the practice facilities are good, and the courses are fair, but they seem to be lacking "intangibles" for lack of a better word.

[Matt Waterbury]

Brad,

I agree that the Nicklaus is far less "architecturally offensive" than the Jones. I also feel that the Jones nines are reversed: the current 1st and 9th would be much better 10th and 18th. The current 18th is another ho-hum 400 yard par four with drop-off left, bunkers right and left, etc.

However, I actually like the variety and challenge of the Jones par 3s and 5s over the Nicklaus. I actually play the courses about 10 times a year, and probably split 50/50 between the two.

As for living there, if you want golf course living on the South Shore and aren't hung up by the whole "semi-private" thing, it is hard to beat the value. Indian Pond is probably close in terms of annual cost, but you have a $25k initiation fee. And you have one good course instead of two decent courses. Black Rock (full disclosure: I live at Black Rock) is closer to town, and obviously I love the course, but has 2x the annual dues and the initiation fee...well...it's pretty ugly.

Cheerio,
Matt

[Jeff Spittel]

I've only played the Nicklaus, and I thought it wasn't bad. However, I can't remember the holes for the life of me, which may be more indicative of the buzz I was carrying that day as opposed to a qualitative assessment. 

I thought the facility was pretty impressive, but I've enjoyed some of the public courses on the Cape (e.g. Captain's) more.

[Michael_Stachowicz]

I would second the Indian Pond mention...there is alot of fun and strategy on that course.

It is funny to start thinking about New England golf...our land is so filled with character, that designs that might be successful in other markets seem bland here.  I get to play Pine Hills next week for the first time, so I will stop there.

[Jay Flemma]

they bore me...go play red tail and tell me if you'll ever need to go back...

[Brad Tufts]

Some interesting stuff guys...

I've never been to Indian Pond, but heard decent things.

I think Pinehills is semi-important in MA golf, as they market themselves more than Waverly (for instance) does, and they host a number of qualifiers and tournaments for the MGA and the NEPGA.

Also, while Red Tail is a better course than both layouts at Pinehills, it is tougher to get to out on Rte. 2, and opens probably a month later in the early season.  If you were coming from afar than Red Tail is the better option.

[Jay Flemma]

At red tail, my buddy who took the wrong turn ended up on route 2 with the golf cart!  I laughed for the first five holes!

[Mike Nuzzo]

Nothing beats an Ernie Banks on your birthday....

LETS PLAY TWO!!!

Happy birthday...

[Cliff Hamm]

FWIW...Played Red Tail Thursday.  Not in summer condition but fairways were fine and greens were excellent, actually quick.  Spoke with someone there who indicated it is sand based soil so that it drains great and stays dry.  Especially important this time of the year.  I can attest to that as it was possible to run the ball on a bit. Discounted greens fees $75, which I still think is too much and we'll see if the economy will support it.  Had a great day.  Best of all did not wait once and played in just a bit over 3.5 hours.  Makes golf this time of the year more enjoyable than summer despite conditions not being optimum.

[Walter Bart]

Have played both of them, probably once a year over the past five years.
A very pleasant golfing experience   but I must also admit that for such highly ranked courses, there are very few memorable holes.

    I also prefer Red Tail, but think it suffers a bit from the mediocre  back to back  short par 4's on the back nine. Greens are much improved from the rock-like situation existing  when the course first opened.

[Ray Richard]

I like the Jones Course at Pine Hills- The course has a very good balance of elevated tees and strategic bunkering, although the ride between holes was substantial. I rate it #3 in Plymouth, Ma behind Old Sandwich and Plymouth Country Club, but better than Waverly which suffers from a few bad holes.

[Brad Tufts]

Haha....edited for a complete mis-read (idiocy) pointed out by Sean....


As far as Plymouth goes, I would rank thusly....

1.  Plymouth CC (haven't played OS, might hold this spot)
2.  Waverly (I like Waverly despite a touch of wackiness....)
3.  Pinehills Nicklaus
4.  Pinehills Jones
5.  Atlantic
6.  Crosswinds

[Sean Leary]

The Jones as #3 in MA public or private???

There's some fodder for controversy!!!

Personally, I would rate it #2, or #1a at the most in it's own development!

I think a panel would rate it somewhere in the #8-#15 range of publics, and the Nicklaus maybe in the #4-#8 range....

Reading comprehension was never a strength in the coursework at Middlebury...

[Jay Flemma]

Have played both of them, probably once a year over the past five years.
A very pleasant golfing experience   but I must also admit that for such highly ranked courses, there are very few memorable holes.

    I also prefer Red Tail, but think it suffers a bit from the mediocre  back to back  short par 4's on the back nine. Greens are much improved from the rock-like situation existing  when the course first opened.

You're right...twelve and 13 are similar, but they don't detrcat form the rest of the course which is great.  remember, the mona lisa hasn't any eyebrows either:)

[Martin Del Vecchio]

12 and 13 are the two weakest holes on the course.  They seem cramped, as if an extra acre or two of land would have allowed for more interesting holes.

But right after that, you have 5 outstanding holes.  Not to mention the great par-3 11th right before it.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()