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Allan Long

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Re: Enlarging the greens-reducing the pin placements
« Reply #25 on: March 30, 2008, 10:33:50 AM »
Has anyone come across the fact that so many renovations require what we have come to call, an "interesting green complex."

The work generally calls for an increase in the size of the green but the new contouring and concommitant green speeds allow for far fewer hole placements than were formerly available.


In a recent Links magazine interview with Pete Dye, Dye stated that one of the things he was doing in renovating his courses was reducing contour and slope in his greens to match today’s speeds.

I'm not sure if enlarging the greens has a direct correlation with reducing pin placements rather than any new contours being added that can't support today's faster green speeds, thus reducing pin placements.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2008, 10:36:31 AM by Allan Long »
I don't know how I would ever have been able to look into the past with any degree of pleasure or enjoy the present with any degree of contentment if it had not been for the extraordinary influence the game of golf has had upon my welfare.
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Chris Burgard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Enlarging the greens-reducing the pin placements
« Reply #26 on: March 30, 2008, 10:38:01 AM »
Tim,

The metre to feet conversion is 3.2808.

The square metres to square feet conversion is 10.764.

4 square metres is 43.06 square feet, so Adrian is pretty close using 40 square feet.

Adrian_Stiff

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Enlarging the greens-reducing the pin placements
« Reply #27 on: March 30, 2008, 10:46:44 AM »
8)

Adrian, in your graphical approach, how did you define "severe" slopes for deletion? 

I ask this as,  in some older, fairly large (4-6000 ft2 plus) greens that I've seen replaced, they were originally sloped down over large runs, typically back to front and had plateaus more often on their perimeters.  Thus, one might be faced with long or short but gradual uphill or downhill putts, and some large breaking crosshill putts.. seemingly allowing cups placements anywhere along the run..

in contrast to plateau/slope/plateau arrangements where placing a cup on the slope or very edge of slope would be akin to putt-putt golf.. thus requiring more separation from the actual slope to allow some run-out space.. reducing pinnable areas by much more than the slopes themselves



Steve- I sort of think pretty much what you are saying too ie; i would define a severe slope as one where a ball would gather speed, so typically a tier on a McKenzie would be the tier plus an element either side of it, ie you need probably 3 metres past a tier before you start to cut a hole, and ofcourse the ball coming to rest the lower side could be 4 or 5 metres, that plus the tier can be quite a bit chunk of 'unpinnable' areas, hence the original question, you can have bigger greens but less places to place the hole. With lesser slopes to some degree they could be unusable at a stimp of 8 or more, but could be used in the Winter or softer conditions, so in that respect you may have some areas that are 'possibles'... I would include those in my 60!
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Tim Gerrish

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Enlarging the greens-reducing the pin placements
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2008, 08:55:44 PM »
Thank you Chris...  I hate to think someone is designing a course and carrying the decimal point that far!!

Yea!  60 pinnable areas works with the right math!! 

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