Hyde Park CC - Cincinnati - Donald Ross (PICS)

[Richard Hetzel]

I thought everyone would enjoy a few pics of Hyde Park CC, originally a 9 hole course by Tom Bendelow (1909), later redesigned by Donald Ross. It is a real gem in Cincinnati. I believe that Arthur Hills did some renovations as well. In fact, I actually liked it much better than The Camargo Club and Coldstream CC, both of which I have played on several different occasions. I have yet to play Kenwood CC, so unfortunately I can't compare it. I actually really like the zoysia fairways here, whereas many others I know do not. Although only tipping out at around 6500 yards, if you pull the driver out too much, you can still get into trouble here. The back nine feels a little tighter as if Ross ran out of room. On one short par 4, one green is very near the pool. Of course, that pool most likely did not exist when Ross penciled his routing. Recently, a developer built an ugly Euro-looking condo building right next to the second of 2 back to back par 5's on the front nine.  Some trees may need to be planted eventually in an attempt (not totally possible as it is a fairly large/high structure) to hide it from view. In my opinion, this is the BEST golf course in Cincinnati, public or private.

[Steve Kline]

I've played HPCC many times over the years as my uncle is a member and it was the home course for my high school golf team. Recent renovation work has made the course much better - for example new bunkers on 11 and 16 that are 30-50 yards short of the green both of which alter the decisions on the tree dramatically. The zoysia fairways help this course because the grass is rather long and they slow down tee shots making the course play longer. I like the course and it has an interesting routing with some good holes, but it is not anywhere near Camargo's league in my opinion. It is definitely more fun that Coldstream, has better holes and way better internal contours on the greens. Kenwood is way, way below Camargo and Hyde Park and probably not as good as Coldstream.

On the front nine, #2, 3, and 4 are great holes. On the back #10, 12, and 14 are good too. The course has tremendous movement within the greens which creates for very interesting pin placements. The Mid-Am qualifier was here last yea. I managed to shoot 71 while hitting 15 greens with 5 three-putts - the greens had some speed too them and the pins were all cut on little tiers.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Rich and Steve,

I'm pretty sure the most recent reno./restoration work complete at Hyde Park is by Tim Liddy.

[JLahrman]

I have not played Hyde Park, but I echo Steve's comparison comments about Kenwood, Coldstream, and Camargo.  I like Kenwood and Coldstream just fine, but of the courses I've seen Camargo is as good as it gets around Cincinnati.

These are the first pictures I've ever seen of Hyde Park, and it does look like it would be fun to play.

[Richard Hetzel]

I don't know, I really wonder how much the "exclusivity factor" plays into Camargo as a course. Having played it 4 times, nothing really jumps out at me except a few par threes and the par 5 where the green sits down in a bowl of sorts. The conditioning was 2nd to none, as it should be for a course that gets LESS than 8K rounds a year. The greens were the most memorable part for me.

I really enjoyed Hyde Park's ability to compact the course into a great piece of varied terrain. Quite possibly with a little MORE tree removal it would be better visually,but it would become much easier as well. A pro playing in my group shot a 74 and only hit a wood 1 time, off the tee at the 18th.

[John Pflum]

I've played HPCC many times over the years as my uncle is a member and it was the home course for my high school golf team.

Steve,

Did you go to St. X? 

[John Pflum]

I have not played Hyde Park (although I would love to), but I echo Steve's comparison comments about Kenwood, Coldstream, and Camargo.  I like Kenwood and Coldstream just fine, but Camargo is as good as it gets around Cincinnati.

These are the first pictures I've ever seen of Hyde Park, and it does look like it would be fun to play.

I've played Kenwood quite a few times -- either in charity events or practice rounds where I was caddying for a friend[1].  It doesn't seem to have the "umph" of other great courses I have played.  Coldstream seems to have more "theater" around it than Kenwood.  The conditions at Kenwood are fantastic and Gil Gusweiller does a great job there as a pro but the courses themselves don't seem all that -- especially condsidering the changes they are currently making. 

JAL -- when are we going to get together???  You and Steve Kline live less than 20 miles COMBINED from my house.  Hell -- let's play Reeves if we have to.  (Of course Steve will kick our butt -- we'll have to play a bisque.)   

[1]  US Senior Qualifier.  I'll be playing there in the next week to scout it and refamaliarize myself. 

[Steve Kline]

Yes - I did go to St. X. Play at Ivy Hills currently.

[John Pflum]

Cool -- me too.  Class of '89.  I wish I would have taken up golf when I was there.  I hear that Joan Whitaker (had her as a math tutor) was great and getting to play at HPCC would have been nice. 

I've played Ivy Hills a few times with Jess Shcroeder and his wife Julie.  I live in Anderson so I drive past it all the time. 

[Raymond]

Steve and John,

Maybe we could have a GCL-palooza. I'm an Elder grad (63). Unfortunately didn't play golf at the time.
I really got interested after moving away. Cincy does have it's share of classic courses. Too bad I never had the chance to appreciate it while growing up.
I'm looking forward to seeing how the GCL competes in the Herbstreit next weekend.

[John Nixon]

I have not played Hyde Park

Camargo is as good as it gets around Cincinnati.

Boy, talk about setting yourself up for a comeback...    

[JLahrman]

I don't know, I really wonder how much the "exclusivity factor" plays into Camargo as a course. Having played it 4 times, nothing really jumps out at me except a few par threes and the par 5 where the green sits down in a bowl of sorts. The conditioning was 2nd to none, as it should be for a course that gets LESS than 8K rounds a year. The greens were the most memorable part for me.

Rich, that's actually the par 4 7th you're referring to...I've had the opportunity to play Camargo many times, perhaps subconsciously there is an exclusivity factor but of the courses I've played (which I'll grant you isn't nearly as many as most posters on this site) there's no place I'd rather play.  I'd say the two par 5s are the weak spots at Camargo, but the 16th is the only par 4 that I don't really like.  All of the par 3s are quite strong as well.

[Steve Kline]

Cool -- me too.  Class of '89.  I wish I would have taken up golf when I was there.  I hear that Joan Whitaker (had her as a math tutor) was great and getting to play at HPCC would have been nice. 

I've played Ivy Hills a few times with Jess Shcroeder and his wife Julie.  I live in Anderson so I drive past it all the time. 

My cousin, Rick Kline, graduated in '87 or '88 I think. I graduated in '93 and played for Joan. She didn't know much about golf but she was great at motivating the players and taking care of us. Before every tournament she took sandwich/drink orders from us the day before. Then at the tournament when we made the turn we all had exactly what we wanted for lunch. Whenever the other teams saw that they were dying to have her as their coach.

[Criss Titschinger]

Thanks for the pics of Hyde Park CC.  Despite knowing a member, I haven't had a chance to play it yet.  The terrain in that part of town is certainly interesting.  Looks like I might have to press the issue

I, too, wish I had taken golf up in high school (Oak Hills, '99).  I did have a chance to play their home course (Western Hills) a couple months ago and really enjoyed it.

[Richard Hetzel]

Steve,

Joan (old St. X coach) is (or was rather) not high on my list. She would never play my 2 time state qualifying team in a match, anywhere. I am sure X would have beaten us, but it would have been an awesome match for sure.

McNicholas  - State 1995, 1996

[Brian Laurent]

Thought some of you might like to take a look at the Hyde Park website...if you go to the course tour, you can view Ross's original drawings for each hole.

http://www.hydeparkcc.com/default.aspx?p=CourseHole&vnf=1&ssid=85171&view=&crsID=1045&hole=1

[Steve Kline]

While many of the greens seemt to have maintained many of the countours in Ross' drawings, it looks like the 7th and 8th greens are quite different. Now this could be because the online drawings are small and somewhat difficult to read. Both the 7th and 8th greens seem to be the in the shape of a "U" in the drawings although on the 8th the "U" is inverted. The interior of the "U" in the drawings looks to be either fairway or rough. These would be very odd shapes given the rest of the greens and other Ross courses I've played - so perhaps I'm reading the drawings wrong. The current 7th green has none of this "U" shape in it. However, the 8th green still has this inverted "U" shape, but everything in the interior of the "U" is green. In fact , I can't even imagine the hole really being playable if it wasn't. So, again, I'm probable reading the original drawings wrong. But, what an interesting design it would be if it was the way I'm reading it.

While I like the course's restoration they still have some bunkers in front of greens that Ross didn't - particularly on the 13th and 14th holes. This is an important difference because the 13th is a reachable par 5. Today it requires a lay up off the tee because of the sharp dogleg. Then it is a 4 iron or more to green (at least for me). The original drawings appear to have a mound in front of the green while the current course has a bunker guarding the front left. On the 14th (a very drivable par 4 that I can fly a driver on the green) there is currently a bunker directly in front of the green and no bunkers in the fairway. This encourages most people to lay up because the fairway is easy to hit with a 6 iron and then a flip wedge to the green while a pulled or pushed drive can easily result in a lost ball. However, the original drawings show the green open in front with several bunkers dotted on the left side of the fairway - which is the ideal lay up. This design makes more sense as it makes the ideal layup more difficult and encourages more attempts at the green despite the dangers. When I'm playing for fun I always try to drive the green but in the one tournament I played there I laid up with a 6 iron to take double out of play and ensure at worst a very easy par.

[PThomas]

thanks for the pictures, it looks interesting...i'll be in the area soon and am trying to see it myself