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Scott Weersing

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Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2008, 09:18:31 AM »

The other thing we discussed a lot is how possible it would be for players to notice the day's pin on #12 from somewhere on #11 and if many would remember to do that because knowing that fact would be real important for them strategically when they got to the tee of #12.

It sounds to me like the concept which was only in theory then is working in play like it was intended to.


Viewing #12 pin placement from #11 fairway is a big part of local knowledge play for me at RC. It's a tip I quickly learned after a massive nasty slice from #11 tee. Thinking I was so smart, I mentioned it on another site on how to play #12. Now I learn it was intended (and I think the tip is also mentioned on the RC website somewhere). Not so smart am I.

The peeks you get of #1,2,3 greens driving up the short and smooth road to the club house has some benefits. The obvious look at #5 is helpful since it's hard for me to judge the green depth on the approach. But I find a stare at #7 green is critical for it's an impossible read for me when on the fairway most times.



You can take a peek at the pin location of the 7th green when you are on the 2nd tee. I do not like the 7th green because it leads to many three putts from bogey players and slows down the round. Rustic Canyon is a great course because you cannot see every part of every green from the fairway. The course was designed to be deceptive. It looks wide open on the tee and then gets harder the closer you get to the green.

It would be helpful if Rustic went to a better pin location sheet. The current system is just A, B, C and the hole could be almost anywhere. But it is links golf. Just play it short and roll it up.

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2008, 09:20:52 AM »
 I think the 12th hole at Rustic and the 3rd hole at Riveria could both be considered 3.5 par holes.

Scott, are you sure you don't mean the 10th at Riviera. The 3rd there is about 425 from the tips.

The green is amazing. I think a short hole should have a difficult green. The green on the 3rd hole at Rustic is rather boring and should have some more bumps in it.

While I agree the green isn't nearly as challenging as the 12th, the hole from the tee is far more interesting in terms of options.

 

I meant the 4th hole at Rivieria, 235 yards. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/riviera1.html

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2008, 09:44:55 AM »
 I think the 12th hole at Rustic and the 3rd hole at Riveria could both be considered 3.5 par holes.

Scott, are you sure you don't mean the 10th at Riviera. The 3rd there is about 425 from the tips.

The green is amazing. I think a short hole should have a difficult green. The green on the 3rd hole at Rustic is rather boring and should have some more bumps in it.

While I agree the green isn't nearly as challenging as the 12th, the hole from the tee is far more interesting in terms of options.

 

I meant the 4th hole at Rivieria, 235 yards. http://www.golfclubatlas.com/riviera1.html


That makes sense. Yes, that hole is most certainly a 3.5! It's a toughie!
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

TEPaul

Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2008, 10:57:03 AM »
"Any other holes at Rustic you would like to discuss?  (the more I think about my one play, the more that #1 intrigues me - perhaps we'll do that hole later this week).
I wish we had a couple of Rustic 'experts' available to post on this thread."

James:

I wish we did too. The ones I'd like to see do that on here are either Gil or Jim Wagner and most certainly Geoff Shackelford. Why don't you email Geoff and ask him to put his thoughts on those holes on here? Asking those guys to explain their concept thinking on some of the holes on the course would be pretty neat.

When I was out there that one or two days only the course had not even gone into construction. Actually, it was an interesting day for Geoff Shackelford, I could tell, because there was a tractor out there basically mowing out the fairway lines for the first time. I could tell that was really cool for Geoff because it was the first time after analyzing that site for years when something of the way the course would be was beginning to come in as a look.

We did spend some time on #1 and I kind of remember there was something about it that was somewhat unsettling to me or maybe not right in some way. Or maybe I'm wrong about that and that was a hole Geoff really liked in concept.

I remember thinking that two of the greens sort of slotted and oriented in near the driveway in what I thought might seem like too much similarity in either look or play.

Could that have been #1 and #3 that have greens that are sort of slotted and oriented right along the driveway?

To me this just underscores how neat and educational it can be to get out on raw sites with a routing and hole by hole plan and talk about how things will work through construction and later in play.

Anybody who gets that opportunity should grab it. It's a great learning experience in architecture, particularly conceptually.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2008, 11:06:16 AM by TEPaul »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2008, 02:55:48 PM »
Tom,
   You are right, it is #1 and #3 greens that are oriented approx. the same and look similar. However, the greens play differently because of where you are generally approaching from. #1 green banks from left to right more than it appears, whereas #3 doesn't do much. #1 also seems to have more down canyon effect for some reason, so it is not uncommon to see approaches roll out the back of the green if you hit to the middle. Given the little sand hazard in front of #1 green it is a delicate shot to be played in there at the beginning of the round. I don't think #3 green turned out quite the way they wanted as I mentioned earlier in the thread.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2008, 04:03:23 PM »
3 to me is fun in that it's a short par 4 and I rarely find one of these I don't like, but 12 is the better challenge and the more fulfilling birdie, I believe.
 

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2008, 02:04:56 AM »
Tom P., If we had a good search function on this site, I think a person could find a few discussions of RC from inception through construction.  I remember Geoff actually posting neat pics of the property before any dozer ever touched it, and plenty of their input in the discussions back then.  Darned if I'm going to spend all night wading through 2001-2 posts though...  ;) ::) :-\
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Joe Perches

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2008, 02:15:49 AM »
I remember Geoff actually posting neat pics of the property before any dozer ever touched it, and plenty of their input in the discussions back then.

You can find a bit of Geoff's thinking here:

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/rustic-canyon-gc/
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/rustic-canyon-overview/
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/rustic-canyon-photos/

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2008, 08:21:36 AM »
There was intensive watering going on last summer when I got to experience Rustic Canyon, especially on the 12th which was frustrating. With a natural lefty fade the hole sets up well for me and I loved the green complex.

In fact, I adored the course, it's apparent simplicity befuddling my playing partners who didn't have the imagination to hit different types of approach shots. I loved the contouring of the big greens and way the distance often appeared to be much shorter / further than one thought.

It's a wonderful golf course that truly is fun to play, represents outstanding value for money and the type of which more should aim to be like.

When I return it is on my must play list, I just hope the 12th fairway isn't being watered...

R_Paulis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2008, 11:51:06 AM »
There was intensive watering going on last summer when I got to experience Rustic Canyon, especially on the 12th which was frustrating. With a natural lefty fade the hole sets up well for me and I loved the green complex.

In fact, I adored the course, it's apparent simplicity befuddling my playing partners who didn't have the imagination to hit different types of approach shots. I loved the contouring of the big greens and way the distance often appeared to be much shorter / further than one thought.

It's a wonderful golf course that truly is fun to play, represents outstanding value for money and the type of which more should aim to be like.

When I return it is on my must play list, I just hope the 12th fairway isn't being watered...

The theme of a damp #12 is apparent. Does the location or position of the hole, its layout, or the somewhat unique green complex require more watering?

I have a sense it gets more water, but is that a drainage problem given that the green is tucked in a lower position against the hillside?

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2008, 03:20:25 PM »
There was intensive watering going on last summer when I got to experience Rustic Canyon, especially on the 12th which was frustrating. With a natural lefty fade the hole sets up well for me and I loved the green complex.

In fact, I adored the course, it's apparent simplicity befuddling my playing partners who didn't have the imagination to hit different types of approach shots. I loved the contouring of the big greens and way the distance often appeared to be much shorter / further than one thought.

It's a wonderful golf course that truly is fun to play, represents outstanding value for money and the type of which more should aim to be like.

When I return it is on my must play list, I just hope the 12th fairway isn't being watered...

The theme of a damp #12 is apparent. Does the location or position of the hole, its layout, or the somewhat unique green complex require more watering?

I have a sense it gets more water, but is that a drainage problem given that the green is tucked in a lower position against the hillside?

The amount of watering depends on how the sprinklers are programmed rather than the hole's place in the canyon.

 There was a problem in the past with some type of mineral which I cannot recall. The solution was to add another type mineral and then lots of water. While this watering style saved the grass, it caused the areas around the green to be very soft and receive many ball marks. Fortunately, the treatment worked in that the grass still grows well and does not take a great deal of watering. The course was fast and firm when I played it last week.


TEPaul

Re:Rustic Canyon #12 hole
« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2008, 06:29:10 PM »
ed getka:

Thank you for your post. It jagged my memory and I remembered a few things, although I don't know how applicable they will be because, again, the course hadn't even gone into construction but they may be interesting for people to hear the concerns and discussions of concepts at that time. I was only there for one day and maybe another so it's not that much and it probably wouldn't have been anything if Shackelford hadn't been so full of really great ideas on all kinds of things.
« Last Edit: January 09, 2008, 06:35:55 PM by TEPaul »

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