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nandoal

On the idea that Bethpage Black was renovated for the purposes of hosting a US Open.  Are there other courses throughout the US, that If the same sort of restoration happened could host a US OPEN?  
« Last Edit: December 31, 2007, 12:08:54 PM by Allan_Hernandez »

Mark Smolens

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2007, 12:12:29 PM »
The Jemsek family is spending a boatload of cash -- and giving up the fees for a year on their premier course -- to answer that very question.

Joel_Stewart

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2007, 08:14:50 PM »
Torrey Pines has been redone for the Open.   I do find it a shame that the USGA doesn't fund more golf courses like Bethpage.   They put hundreds of millions into the first tee and let great munis decay.

Garland Bayley

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2007, 08:59:19 PM »
No restoration necessary. Chambers Bay.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2008, 09:02:57 AM »
You could host the US Open in a parking lot if you wanted to.  The incessant questions about which courses are "worthy" are just an extremely speculative way of saying "my course is better than yours".

I do agree with Joel's point.  The USGA would do more for golf by putting money into big-city munis, NOT so they could host an Open but so they could better serve those communities.  However, there are lots of independent operators who'd lobby against it, and even if you dismiss them, it would be scary to give that money to city governments which have allowed their munis to become so run down to begin with.

Phil_the_Author

Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2008, 11:11:10 AM »
Tom raises a very valid point when he states, "it would be scary to give that money to city governments which have allowed their munis to become so run down to begin with..."

Since it has been used as the example, let's examine the Bethpage Black situation in greater detail in light of what Tom said.

On the one hand, as bad as the Black was condition-wise in the mid-90's, that was nothing compared to how poorly maintained it was through the late 70's. It ws at that point that Chcuk Workman began putting money into the course (new sand in bunkers and upgrading the sprinkler system for example). He also began putting money back into having exhibitions on the Black and inviting friends from the then start-up senior tour (on which Chuck played more than a few events) to play rounds or host driving contests off the first tee, etc...

It was because of this improvement that when the USGA visited in the early 90's that it was able to inspire them with the idea that it might be a doable project.

From that perspective then, the state of New York, in the person of Chuck Workman, was at least attempting to care for a great course.

Of course from the opposite perspective, the ONLY person from the state who was showing a proper attitude toward caring for the Black, was Chuck Workman. In fact, the monies he used for the project were as the reult of scrimping and taking from other park projects and that also was one of the factors that would eventually cost him his job.

The state of New York, since at least the late 1940's, used many of the excess revenues produced by golf at Bethpage to be the MAIN SOURCE for funding the maintenance for the rest of the entire New York State Park system. That was a tremendous amount of money to move outside of Bethpage Park but easily allowable as the monies were put into a general fund for the Park system.

As each year went by and state financial crises increased, being able to use Bethpage money to fund a park in upstate New York became a very easy decision to make by a committee of state congressmen, only a very few (and at times, if that) of whom were from Long Island.

So the maintenance problems at Bethpage generated from the state governmental system. As part of the USGA upgrade and hosting of the US Open, the State agreed that it would not allow this situation to again happen... and that may soon be a problem.

With a new governor comes new appointments, and so the head of the New York State Parks Commission is no longer Bernadette Castro, easily one of the biggest fans of the Black and the person who did more to make the deal with the USGA than anyone else in the State.

With her gone, the Parks administration now answers to one who has been described to me as a "bean-counter" and I've become greatly concerned.

The question of "If we reduced the operating budget for Bethpage by 1.5 million a year would we harm the Black and other courses?" has already been mentioned in back and some forward rooms as well.

The Park has nothing to fear between now and 2009, but with the state already turning down an opportunity to host the 2012 Amateur because of money issues (although this may yet happen), with nothing of major conseuquence on the horizon and with Dave Catalano's probable retirement shortly after the Open, and with new bosses to answer to that may not give Craig Currier the freedon that he has greatly enjoyed, might he not leave as well?

If that happens, there will be NO ONE at Bethpage who was party to the original agreement to keep up and maintain the Black and other park courses that was made to get the 2002 Open.

Not to be doom-and-gloom here, but that scenario is quite real and possible and something that those within the USGA must also carefully watch as they consider future ideas of places to giift with restorations whether they be to host Opens or not...

Ken Fry

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2008, 11:26:12 AM »
Two words:  Harding Park

Big money to "bring the golf course back."  "Make it tournament worthy."  It became neglected by government involvement, no?

The large golf organizations of this country should be doing more.  The USGA makes a boatlaod of money on the Open (yes, that money goes to operating the other events that lose money but...).  The PGA of America makes a boatload of money on the Ryder Cup and PGA Championships.

What exactly is a "U.S. Open venue" anyway?  Baltusrol?  Oakmont?  Hazeltine?  Pebble Beach?  Torrey Pines?  My local 7400 yard modernized course?

JSPayne

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2008, 11:29:17 AM »
Though it's not a US Open course, Harding Park deserves to be mentioned in this thread. Possibly not for architectual value, but at least for monies spent on a municpal course that had been let go.
"To be nobody but yourself in a world which is doing it's best, night and day, to make you everybody else means to fight the hardest battle any human being can fight; and never stop fighting." -E.E. Cummings

Ken Fry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2008, 12:12:12 PM »
Though it's not a US Open course, Harding Park deserves to be mentioned in this thread. Possibly not for architectual value, but at least for monies spent on a municpal course that had been let go.

I wasn't mentioning Harding Park as a candidate.  Quite the opposite.  No offense to those who worked on Harding Park and brought it back, but considering the money involved, couldn't the financial resources been used toward something more meaningful?  Just what the golf industry needs:  a golf course popular at one time, "brought back" in conditioning and infrastructure and now able to charge $150 green fees.

Ken

Kalen Braley

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2008, 12:14:53 PM »
Though it's not a US Open course, Harding Park deserves to be mentioned in this thread. Possibly not for architectual value, but at least for monies spent on a municpal course that had been let go.

I wasn't mentioning Harding Park as a candidate.  Quite the opposite.  No offense to those who worked on Harding Park and brought it back, but considering the money involved, couldn't the financial resources been used toward something more meaningful?  Just what the golf industry needs:  a golf course popular at one time, "brought back" in conditioning and infrastructure and now able to charge $150 green fees.

Ken

But it is a good deal if you are a san fran resident!!   :D

Joel_Stewart

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Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2008, 02:09:10 PM »
Though it's not a US Open course, Harding Park deserves to be mentioned in this thread. Possibly not for architectual value, but at least for monies spent on a municpal course that had been let go.

Harding should not be mentioned on this thread unless you are talking about graft and greed and misuse of public funds.  Issuing bonds to pay for the course and then using that money to pay Tim Finchem and the PGA tour architectural services millions in exchange for a tour event is not good business.

Ray Richard

Re:(i.e. Bethpage Black), Are there others that could host a US OPEN?
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »
The Ponkapoag Golf Course about 10 miles south of Boston has the potential to be a worthy site. As discussed on another thread,it would involve a huge amount of money and the constuction of a new clubhouse-although a few miles north they built Granite Links a.k.a.Quarry Hills for over 100 million.
The #1 course is a Ross design that needs the removal of thousands of trees along with tee,bunker and green rebuilding. The inferior #2 course could provide some needed land for additional length, and its great location along a main highway would solve the parking problems.

The only thing needed is to find a way to convince the owner,the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, the long term benefits of such an investment

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