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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2003, 11:55:44 AM »
It would be interesting to hear some comparisons between Tom Fazio's Shadow Creek and Jim Fazio's Trump International in West Palm Beach. Each started with nothing. Scratch that, Jim had a prison.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Patrick_Mucci

Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2003, 11:57:45 AM »
Quassi,

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Steve_L.

Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2003, 12:31:59 PM »
I agree with Talking Stick...

As the desert goes - it's brutal...  Before it was built I would've never guessed it as a site for a wonderful golf facility...

The best I've seen on a rough piece of property...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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TEPaul

Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2003, 03:07:59 PM »
"Agreed on TCC as being a bad site, although it is really only bad in a couple of areas. I suspect a number of New England courses would look similar if they chose not to blast through the rock. So in this respect, TCC simply made a choice to incorporate the rocks (although i imagine lack of technology or mechanical wherewithal made the decision for them)."

What's this about TCC being a bad site and a sow's ear? And because of their rock outcroppings no less? What's this all about? Where do you guys who make statements like that live, anyway?--in the Garden of Eden of architectural preconstruction topograpghy? I think things like the TCC rock outcropping areas are some of the neatest natural features for golf I've ever seen! If somebody was all concerned that a ball might go "KABOINK" off a piece of granite then the architect can just sod over the horrible obstacle--and I'm sure plenty of the Old Guys did that.

I just love that rugged, jaggedy, rock outcropping type topography one finds all over that Boston and New England area. Hell, if I was an architect I'd insist on leaving a lot of rock exposed! I went to school up there and am familiar with that kind of ground but I never thought about it back then in a golf architecture context.

I think most of the Boston area that has natural features like those rock outcroppings is natural "silk purse" sites--the exact opposite in fact from a natural "sow's ear" site!

Just look at a course like Charles River, for instance! Some of the neatest natural golf ground I ever saw as well as some of the best work by Ross using it architecturally too!

I love everything about TCC--all the quirk and odd natural features. With one notable exception. I think it's that 3rd hole on the Primrose nine! I don't know where in Hell that one came from or how Flynn let that thing pass muster. A dark little nothing hole that practically ends in someone's rather unattractive backyard! It looks to me like some little illegitimate result of a bad night out that slipped unnoticed in the cellar door to me!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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Paul_Turner

Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2003, 04:01:58 PM »
Didn't Bernard Darwin criticise Garden City using this phrase i.e. you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear?   I think I remember reading that he was underwhelmed by the course and much preferred The Country Club (all this was prior to 1920).
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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ian

Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #30 on: May 27, 2003, 07:45:53 PM »
There are a couple of Pete Dye's that fit into this, but I have to agree that the TPC at Sawgrass is a most impressive accomplishment when you look at the site.

There are some impressive landfill (garbage dump) projects that should get an honourary mention for what they overcome.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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JWL

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best silk purse from a sow's ear?
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2003, 07:27:32 AM »

TEP

Interesting subject, and one that should be discussed more imho.  This is the arena where the GAC's really show their ability.
Although I know this course doesn't fit the eye of most on this board, I think the TPC/Michigan qualifies as a very good  example of your subject line.  The week of July 11-13 the course will be on display for the Ford Champions Players Championship.   When originally opened, the course was considered very difficult by the senior players.   Over the last 10 years, many bunkers and additional tees have been added, and because of equipment/ball, they still shoot very low numbers.  It always seems to play very fast and the greens are perfect.  This leads to low scores for these talented players.
The course has won numerous environmental awards and that is amazing considering flat, dump site that we started with.  I know it isn't considered a top 100 course, and probably even isn't the best example of your thread, but I thought I would add it to the list because I do believe it would be in the top 100 or so in this thread's category.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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