O/T Oh, That we could all last that long..

[JohnV]

I hear a lot more players say, "That is 7, that's all I can take" and pick up the ball than say, "I've got to hole this out for 11 for my handicap."

Players in America, with or without handicaps, are stuck in the mode of counting strokes and wanting to get their moneysworth. That is why foursomes is not popular here.  Ask any player why they won't play foursomes and I bet that the vast majority tell you that it is because they want to play the entire course and not just hit every other shot.  Same reason many go to the back tees when they shouldn't.

[JohnV]

One other thought regarding players with handicaps.  Here at Poppy Hills, the vast majority of golfers who play are either NCGA members or they are tourists who have travelled here.  The NCGA members obviously have handicaps.  The tourists who travel here are more than likely to be avid golfers with the money to spend $195 (non-member rate) and as such probably have handicaps.

So, I think it is safe to say that most of the players at Poppy Hills have handicaps.

Given that, last Sunday I was in the very last group on the course and we played in 4:30.  Not a great time, but not bad for a Sunday on a public course that isn't easy and where most of the players haven't played it more than a couple of times.  With all those handicapped golfers out there shouldn't it have been even slower than a normal muni on a Sunday?

[ed_getka]

Tom,
   I wasn't saying that at all. I just find it amusing when someone makes a statement that assumes that all other perspectives are wrong. I never assume for a minute that I haven't overlooked another way of looking at something.
   There are many reasons that golfers are slow over here, most of which I would think  have little to do with handicap systems. The golfer who takes 10 practice swings and then tops the ball, the foursome who has everyone on the green and yet no one is doing anything because the next person isn't ready to play, the golfer who couldn't put 10 shots on a basketball court-size target from 100 yards, but will pace off exact yardages from sprinkler heads, etc.... I could go on for hours, but I think you get my point.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:  I get your point.

So if Matt replaced the word "absolutely" with "nearly" would you agree with his take?

TH

[ed_getka]

Maybe. Too many lawyers around here, so I'm not going to paint myself into a corner. Plus, I don't know enough about our system or the UK system to know. I really could care less about handicaps. Of course, I don't play competitive golf,  so I don't need to.

[Tom Huckaby]

Ed:

OK, OK.  But for someone who doesn't care about handicaps, you were pretty quick to take Matt to task for his statement.

 

TH

[ed_getka]

Well, when someone states "...has absolutely nothing to do with..." as part of their argument, you may as well end the discussion, because  one side isn't listening any more.

[Tom Huckaby]

Well, when someone states "...has absolutely nothing to do with..." as part of their argument, you may as well end the discussion, because  one side isn't listening any more.

Oh heck yeah.  I too dislike absolutes.  That's why I asked you to change that one word.  Because I don't think Matt means that handicaps are ZERO percent of the problem (although that is surely what his statement taken literally means).

[JohnV]

I usually don't like to correct myself as it would be admitting I made a mistake, but I will this time.  I spoke with our handicap director here and he thinks there are just over 5 million golfers with handicaps.  GHIN has about 2.5 million of those with other vendors providing the rest.

But, he also said that the NGF's number of 26 million avid golfers is disputed by many in the industry so the percentage is probably somewhere around 25% having handicaps.

I wonder how they all get in the first group on Saturday to slow down the non-handicap golfers.

[ed_getka]

John,
   The answer must  be somewhere in string theory.