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Tommy_Naccarato

San Clemente
« on: October 29, 2007, 02:52:50 AM »
Played San Clemente today with Dave Stamm and got to put my new camera through it's paces. I'm enjoying the SLR (Samsung, with an assist from Bill Cosgrove who highly recommended it to me) but man, does one have to learn how to use it! At least if you want to try to capture images of a better quality. I have a lot to learn.

San Clemente started out as a Billy Bell Sr. nine-holer, constructed in 1930 with Billy Jr. adding the back nine much later on. It's a pretty charming steal for local residents @ $15.00 weekdays; $37.00 weekends.

Try to guess which holes shown are Jr. or Sr.








« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 02:55:18 AM by Tommy Naccarato »
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 09:44:18 AM »
Tommy, I'll guess pic #'s 1,3 & 5 are Sr. ???
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 11:25:41 AM by Adam Clayman »
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 10:50:18 AM »
Nice to see the pics.  San Clemente was where I grew up.
Junior twilight was .25.
Dave Cook , the pro is a high school buddy and one of the nicest guys in golf.
There are ocean views from every hole and as Tommy says is great value resident or not.
Irishman Paul McGinley is a former City Champ.
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2007, 11:43:30 AM »
Tommy, thanks for posting. I had a great time with you. I guess you could call SC my home course. It's alot of fun and I enjoy it. And you're right, it is charming. Some neat features throughout and it would not be very hard at all to put the BB bunkers back in certain spots. I think it's one of the best deals in So Cal, resident or not. The new clubhouse is almost done and it has turned out very well. Not over done at all, but nice. I think the 1st and 10th tees will be extended back since the old pro shop is now gone. Here's a link to their website so all can see. If you're in the area, you won't regret playing it.


http://www.sanclementegc.com/
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Dave Bourgeois

Re:San Clemente
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2007, 01:00:34 PM »
It does a public golfer's heart good to see places like this.  Good public/muni golf is out there, you just have to look for it.
!
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Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 04:19:32 PM »
Time for this hombre to get a Blackberry....although lack of email allowed me to get out at my normal place of business and win the $2 nassau. With Stamm in the mix I'd win the bet and never see the funds :-\.

Stan, congrats on the lowest rate paid....I thought I had it won at $1, which they would allow any kid in the local public school district (for me, Dana Hills, class of 91'). Post college, I lived there and we would pay $11 on the weekend to walk. Today, the locals pay on the order of $19 with visitors at $37.

An old friend was grouped with McGinley in the city tournament the year he won it (92 or 93 I believe). Recounting the story, he found himself saying "nice shot" multiple times on every hole :) and Paul won going away.

The pro shop is one of the friendlier places in the game. Just don't get on the wrong side of the starter.

TN, any photos of the humps on #5?
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You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 05:56:56 PM »
Jon,
SCHS class of 71.
Is the starter now run our of Daves end of the shop and not a city employee?  
Was Tommycopter the starter you were referring to?
# 13 is a great golf hole.
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Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 06:21:18 PM »
Looks like you might have had some of the original DHHS folks in 71....chances are we have a few common interests....

I believe the course is still separate of the Cook's shop. Tom is the starter I referenced...I never made the investment, but know a few that did ;).

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You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 06:53:57 PM »
Adam, the 1st photo is Sr. That's the par 4 8th. The second is the front bunker on the par 4 3rd, Sr. The 3rd is the par 5 11th, Jr.

The next is the par 5 5th, Sr. The last two are the same hole, the semi Redan par 3 15th, Jr.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 08:07:20 PM by David Stamm »
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 07:48:52 PM »
Tommy,

Cool.  Thanks for sharing.

I'm holding the very first Butter Ball Classic the day after Thankgsgiving with my crew.

Should be ... interesting.
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“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2007, 07:51:33 PM »
Are you taking them to SC Patrick?
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2007, 08:02:09 PM »
If we can get on.

Called and they said the day after Thanksgiving was probably the busiest day of the year.

I'll be dialing 7 days out at 6am like a madman...

Wish us luck.

Nice to know the Sr. vs. Jr. as well.  I'll be on lookout for that.
Logged
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 08:05:29 PM »
Keep in mind that they keep 2 time slots open every hour for walk-ons, a really unqiue policy. I've never made a tee time there. I've played it many times and it's always been as a walk-on. That's how TN and I got on Sunday. Went out at a little after 7am. Waited maybe 10 mins. The earlier the better for you and your group.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2007, 08:42:14 PM »
PK, remember DS is the guy that drives from Rustic to SD in something like 45 minutes. Last Sunday was more of an anomaly than a reality.

The locals have this place very locked up; they a) get priority on call-in, and b) are friendly with the starters. It'd be an icy day in hell before anyone would get a prime tee time on a holiday/weekend morning.....so if you want to get on the walk on list the day after Thanx, spend the night in the parking lot with a priest  :o.

They do leave 2 times open per hour for walk ins, but that becomes a moving target when all the locals show up on the same day.
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You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:San Clemente
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2007, 11:25:01 PM »
Patrick,
Enjoy the course. It is beautiful and worthy of note. I counted on several occasions, golf holes worthy of note. Great carries; lots of dead bunkers waiting for reanimation.

Jon,
David is right here. We got on in like 10 minutes or less, in fact I was driving into the parking lot he was motioning me to hurry-up that we were 2nd up on the tee!

But 45 minutes from SD to RC? What was he driving, The Thrust SSC?



« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 11:26:58 PM by Tommy Naccarato »
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Dennis_Harwood

Re:San Clemente
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2007, 01:09:07 AM »
Quote from: Tommy Naccarato on October 29, 2007, 11:25:01 PM

But 45 minutes from SD to RC? What was he driving, The Thrust SSC?





Now that is a great picture--

 But, at 115.91 miles (according to MapQuest) the CHP would have a bounty out for him-- Add in LA basin traffic and to get under 3 hours he better get that sucker airborne!
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Mark Bourgeois

Re:San Clemente
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2007, 01:14:57 AM »
Quote from: Tommy Naccarato on October 29, 2007, 11:25:01 PM
lots of dead bunkers waiting for reanimation.

A MacKenzie: Nurse, is there a Mr Bell loose on this property?

Nurse: In the bunker morgue, I think, doctor.

AM: Sigh, I specifically told Dr Hunter, "Suspend him!"
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2007, 12:27:10 PM »
Okay, for the record smart asses, I am an admitted lead foot. I have been able to get to RC from SD North county in about an hour and 35 mintues early morning hours on a Sunday, the only time of week that that could be pulled off. 45 minutes? Only if I had one of these.... ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqj6rOufzaE
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente New
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2007, 05:04:06 PM »
Jon,

Good to know.  I'm gonna plan for a backup to this ... just in case.

I don't want to get hosed hosting the 1st ButterBall Classic and not have tee times.


Tommy,

Nice wheels.  I've got a little pocket rocket myself.



David,

I've got a lead foot problem too.



Quote from: Jon Spaulding on October 29, 2007, 08:42:14 PM
PK, remember DS is the guy that drives from Rustic to SD in something like 45 minutes. Last Sunday was more of an anomaly than a reality.

The locals have this place very locked up; they a) get priority on call-in, and b) are friendly with the starters. It'd be an icy day in hell before anyone would get a prime tee time on a holiday/weekend morning.....so if you want to get on the walk on list the day after Thanx, spend the night in the parking lot with a priest  :o.

They do leave 2 times open per hour for walk ins, but that becomes a moving target when all the locals show up on the same day.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 09:36:15 PM by Patrick Kiser »
Logged
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2007, 08:27:31 PM »
Patrick, that's my cruising speed to RC.  ;)
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2007, 09:32:25 PM »
Glad we were able to make it on to San Clemente Muni, but what a drag getting around.

Way too crowded and too many jerks out there.  We got through 18 though ... but barely.  Pitch dark by the time we turned in.

Anyway, I sort of got lost with all the switching back and forth between holes.  We started on the 7th, 8th, 9th and back onto the 1st.  Then you skip again to the 10th.

Kind of a mess right now with that clubhouse going in.

It's sort of clear that range was part of the course at some point.  Most likely the original Sr. nine hole course.

I'd be curious to know how many Sr./ Jr. courses are out there like this.

What surprised me given the condition of the course was how decent the greens played.  Everything heads to the ocean.  Everything.  Some fun breaks to read.

Lots of false fronts that unfortunately didn't create enough of a challenge because ... they were mostly thick and shaggy bermuda.  Real potential if those were redone.  Landing short could create havoc.

I thought the bunkers were in decent shape.  I noticed on several holes a pattern towards clover like bunkers.  For instance the 8th fairway bunkers from Sr. has a cluster of 3 down the right hand side.

The back nine does feel different.  Especially the 13th through 16th stretch.  More elevation changes.  The 16th is an interesting risk / reward dogleg left.  That hole could really take advantage of some tree clearing to provide even more drama I think.

It was nice to see the wind really come into play.  Many of the holes are back and forth.  So one hole you'll get the wind from the right and then from the left.

I also loved the course undulation throughout.  Rare to see in these parts...

I wish they would get some tree management going if they're NOT going to restore, because it could really use it on several holes.  Trying to play the wind in some situations was a real pain because of the trees coming into play a tad much.

A good walking course as well.  A little hilly on the back perhaps, but certainly nothing crazy.

Definitely worth the experience and I'll return ... but ONLY on a weekday.
Logged
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Stan Dodd

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #21 on: November 26, 2007, 10:56:22 AM »
Patrick,
Glad you got out at the Muni.  A couple of points the routing is askew because of construction.
I have played SC since the late 60's.  The range has always been there, though the 2nd green was a bit farther back and closer to the range.  
The fairway bunkers on the 8th are new in the last 5 or 6 years.  They were having too many balls flying into the restaurants so they put bunkers in so people would aim left.
I think the course now is almost all kikuya which plays like velcro, particularly for chipping and pitching.
If you tee off anytime after 9:00 on the weekends you are in for a long day.
Cheers
Stan
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David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #22 on: November 26, 2007, 08:31:02 PM »
Patrick, I'm glad you were able to at least finish. You are correct, the course could greatly benefit from a tree clearing program. You will have a much better time on a weekday as opposed to the weekend. Faster pace and different golfers. It is sort of mess there because if construction but you knew that going in. The clover like bunkers you mention are actually a in house job. The example you cite on the 8th is typical. Those were done, I believe, by the super there. Here is an overlay that TN did for me on the course, The b&w photo is from when the course first opened and the outline of the holes is by Tommy showing how they would fit in the with the course today. The green Stan mentions on 2 was right in the middle of the range at about the 200-220 ydge. You can still see the the remnants of the complex there. The original tee on 6 (the one that plays back to the clubhouse along the range) used to be in the park that is to the left of the present tee. 1's tee used to be where the range tee is now, more or less. I'm sure you saw all the bunker carcasses. They could be easily brought back, like the one front right at 6.


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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Clemente
« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2007, 12:12:18 PM »
David,

Thanks for sharing.  Great to see the before and after like that.

I had a feeling something was up with those clover bunkers.  They're not just on the 8th either.  There's a green complex with them as well.  Too repetitive to look natural and too obviously proportioned.

Again, thanks for the suggestion in the first place.  That's why I love GCA.  Always hidden treasures to learn and find out about.
Logged
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect
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