[wsmorrison]

"What got me was when Wayne said to the effect that we all know who the proper acting architects are.  I am saying that implies that the architects are popular, or how else would we all know?"

Yes, you are right, John.  I see your point and made the change.

[Sean_A]

Man, there are some wierd threads floating around today.  

John K - I am not sure what your questions have to do with the topic because I don't really understand the topic.  Your question concerning sacrificing archie values stuck out.  I am not sure how deep you consider these values to be, but I would be surprised if any archie hasn't sacrificed (compromise?) some value to get/keep a job.  Afterall, some values aren't so important as others and we all have to eat.

Ciao

Sean,

I will reluctantly answer your question, because I fear I will perceived as pontificating or condescending.

My most important value: I never compromise my other values in order to achieve financial gain.  It is cardinal sin #1 in my book, and I perceive this to be a major problem in modern society.  I swear I'd rather go hungry than lie to make money.

I think that's what JK is saying about Ken Kavanaugh.  He's a man of integrity.

Believe me, I've got a considerable list of character defects that I try to improve upon.  That isn't one of them.

John K

More power to ya!  I have no problem telling the customer what he wants to hear even if I am not convinced I can deliver.  Thats the reality of being a supplier in the auto industry.  Its promise this or that or the business is going to the Far East or some other god awful place that very few of us would be willing to work or live.  In other words, a large percentage of the industry has traditionally been reliant (and dare I say thrived) on lies.  Its so much easier now not having to deal big car companies!  My customers now have realistic expectations and everyone is happier for it.

I find myself in the same sort of position Jimmy Carter was in during that sacrificial campaign against Rayguns.  He tried tellin it like it is, but folks would rather listen to junk.  That campaign was the the final nail in the coffin for honest politics in America.

Ciao  

[John Kirk]

Let's say 15 years ago I get a call from the Meadow Club.  I see things I don't like.  I'm not as aware of the great pedigree the course possesses.  I honestly say I think I can make it better, and propose changes.

Now let's say it's 2001 or 2002, and I'm smart enough to know that a Mackenzie is worth preserving, and there are guys who specialize in that field.  I honestly say, "Well, I'd love the job, but this course should be preserved as a Mackenzie, and you should contact either Tom Doak or Michael DeVries.  Those are the right guys for this job."  

[Mike_Young]

Tom,
I don't know....I think it can only be discussed on an idividual club basis.
But if individual clubs would wake up and realize that the USGA needs them much more than they need the USGA we would have  a much healthier golf environment.  
ALSO.....IMHO architects are made by clubs not vice versa......just look at the last 20 years when the "signature" became the rage.  There was a lot of crap being built that became "best new" for one reason......the developer/owner/club had a marketing budget and hired the architect for marketing purposes much more than for the type of golf course he would deliver.....and as part of marketing they took maintenance over the top.....therefore architects were being "made" by these clubs.....this continues today.....so many clubs are developed not for the golf but for a lifestyle and the "architect" is more important to the club for marketing than for architecture.....

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