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Chris_Clouser

Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« on: September 05, 2007, 09:04:43 AM »
Rock Hollow Golf Club
Peru, Indiana

Somehow Liddy was able to take a course with water in play on a dozen holes and make it feel like the average player could get around without losing a ball.  Mostly this was accomplished by providing large hole corridors and keeping the water to the side of play.  Three large waste areas are also in play but otherwise the bunkers are largely an afterthought, unless one finds them.  The elevation changes are mostly the star at Rock Hollow and they do provide some wonderful holes.  The climb up the sixth, the downhill tee shot on the third and the blind nature of the sixteenth create some wonderful thrill moments around the course.
   The wide hole corridors are also critical to the holes as Liddy uses angles of approach very well on several holes.  Instead of the typical bunker on the side that is preferred he just provides a flatter piece of terrain.  It is a very understated approach to the design of a course that provides some extremely beautiful holes.    
   With all of the elevation changes, Liddy tried not to overdo it on the green ends of the holes.  Most of the green surfaces are mild in design, while a couple are almost flat.  But there is some variety, as the eighth and fourteenth greens are evidence.  The fourth is even home to a solid impersonation of a Biarritz style green.  Liddy appears to have learned that one should never steal the show from the main attraction, especially in Peru.

Holes of note:

Hole 3 – 537 yards – A gorgeous elevated tee presents a wide fairway.  The approach is concealed by two bunkers on the right that hide a gap to the green.  The green runs from left to right smoothly.

The view back up the hole


Hole 4 – 167 yards – A built up Biarritz style hole.  The green features the Biarritz style swale but instead of bunkers alongside the hole, Liddy raised the green surface almost ten feet above the surrounds.  

From the tee

The green contours


Hole 6 – 601 yards - The sixth runs up hill all the way to a shelved green at the hole’s highest point.  Getting in position to make a solid approach is the key to success on this par five.

The approach to the elevated green


Hole 8 – 219 yards – A Liddy template par three with the terrain running towards the hazard and also providing help for the running shot to go towards the putting surface that runs directly towards a hidden pot bunker behind.



Hole 10 – 542 yards – Perhaps the tightest tee shot that goes out to a ridge.  The approach though runs downhill to a green that runs away from the player.  A lone bunker short of the green complicates the idea of trying to bounce one in as distance control becomes paramount.

From behind the green


Hole 13 – 332 yards – Perhaps the best hole on the course.  A lone bunker defends the landing zone in the fairway.  The smallest green on the course by a left to right slope and steep fall offs to a bunker encircling the right and back sides of the green.  

This lone bunker causes all sorts of havoc


Hole 14 – 228 yards – The scariest shot on the course is the tee shot on the Reverse Redan.  The green runs from front left to back right in typical style.  A nasty hole that allows very few threes.

Quite an imposing tee shot


Hole 15 – 537 yards – The tee shot reminds me of the 8th at Crystal Downs as it goes out over a wetland area.  But the comparison ends there.  The second is blind over a rise.  Playing along the left side is ideal if one is not afraid to walk over the hill and find their shot.  If one lays back, the right side of the fairway does allow a view of the green.  The two sectioned green is a great equalizer for the long bombers who get home but have to putt to the other half over a ridge.

From the tee

The blind second

The view from behind the green


Hole 16 – 326 yards - The sixteenth uses a pond as the deterrent on the inside line, but the ideal path to the hole is on the outside of the slight dogleg to get an elevated and flat landing spot to get a great view of the green.  The sixteenth green looks like something from a William Langford course with the style of green construction.

Tee shot


Hole 18 – 427 yards – A typical Dye style finishing hole with a dogleg around water.  The tee shot is beautiful, but very intimidating.

The gorgeous tee shot to end the round


The routing of the course seems to make great use of the terrain and provides a start to the course that just builds momentum until the end.  Also, Liddy utilized several vistas to provide multiple hole views across the property.  All of this while keeping the course extremely walkable.  When all is said and done, I think Rock Hollow challenges for the top spot in the state for public courses, at least in my book.  

Chris_Clouser

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2007, 02:29:18 PM »
Based on your comments recently I thought of you a lot while going around Rock Hollow.  There are no extra bunkers laying around that course.

Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2007, 02:40:32 PM »
You gotta love this site.  Where else could you find out so much about so many courses?  I don't know much about Liddy.  I love the raised greens.  I agree, Sean, they don't need bunkers.  I think this course looks interesting enough without a bunch of bunkers.

Chris, the bunkers on three and thirteen are both circular.  Is this common on the  course?
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Doug Ralston

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2007, 03:04:33 PM »
Tommy;

I have now played four Tim Liddy courses. I loved them all. In fact, I agree with Chris that Rock Hollow challenges for #1 public in Indiana. I rate it equal to his southern IN course, Sultan's Run [a very different type of layout], and I also rate Trophy Club in the Top Ten I have played in Indiana.

Looking for more!

Doug

Chris_Clouser

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2007, 03:28:14 PM »
Tommy,

Not typical, but they are there.  Actually, if Tim sees this perhaps he can chime in, most of the bunkers were slightly irregular in shape.  But I did notice that on several holes that Tim placed a round trap at the backside of the green that was hidden from the fairway.  

So if you see this Tim, can you tell why this technique was used on several holes at Rock Hollow?  I am just curious why you did, not trying to out it as a bad decision or anything.  I actually liked it on most of the holes I saw it on.  

Doug,

Yes, it is equal to Purgatory in my mind.  It is just hard to compare the two courses because they are so different.  Trophy Club and Fort are right behind these.  Maybe when I get to Sultans Run I can have the same thoughts about it as you do.  By the way sent you a PM about my trip.

I know that Matt Ward has been critical about the course.  I would like to hear him chime in with his reasons.  I'm sure he will back them up and provide some evidence, and there are some things that he can be critical of, but I would like to hear them.  
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 03:30:47 PM by Chris_Clouser »

Jerry Kluger

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Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2007, 03:36:50 PM »
I could see going out to #4 about an hour before sunset and just have fun chipping and putting.  No need to play the hole just try a whole bunch of chips and putts.  

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2007, 04:57:37 PM »
Once again, a nice photo essay, and it looks like a fine golf course design project.  One thing I noted, after reading the liability link on another thread, about the owner and Liddy's extra effort and concern about liability... they did end with at least one blind shot on the par 5 15th as you have portrayed.  Are there any more blind shots?  I'm not looking for negativity, as I can't see a blind shot being out of the question in deferance to a good design concept opportunity if it presents itself to the archie while routing.  

Also, I really don't see any relationship to that hole and CD 8.  But, everyone has their own eye for things, I guess... ;) 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Chris_Clouser

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2007, 05:11:28 PM »
Mr. Daley,

The only other possible blind shot that I can think of off the top of my head would be the possible second on 16 if you lay back off of the tee.  

I was just thinking of the tee shot on 15 when I wrote that.  Primarily the fact that you tee off over the water and brush.  Sorry it didn't come across that way.  

RJ_Daley

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Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2007, 05:17:35 PM »
Chris, that is a good study in what the eye sees, like the other thread...  ;) ;D

I guess my eye saw and remembered the back end of 8 CD more than the front end.  I guess the tee ball didn't strike me as too difficult or memorable across to a generous LZ, then down sweeping right, with upslope to that severely false fronted green.  I still have nightmare remembering that approach, and once there, not putting off the front again!  ;D 8)

BTW, it is Dick or RJ...  ;) ;D
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 05:18:10 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

GDStudio

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2007, 07:40:28 PM »
Nice to see a good write up about this course!  I grew up fishing on the site with my grandfather.

Tim did a great job with this site and it is nice to see him getting the recognition that he and the course deserve.

As for the 15th, if you walk about 15-20 yards from the "landing zone" you can see if anyone is around / near the green and get a good feel for the approach.  Now, if you are short like I usually am, its more like a good 40-50 yard walk.

I think the best thrill shot is the back tee on 18.  wow what a feeling, if you can find the tee!  

My favorite has to be the 13th though.  Short Par 4 with that sneaky bunker.  The fairway is actually extremely wide (not sure of exact width) but the slope takes everything to that bunker.  But the biggy is the 8-10 foot drop off behind the green into the bunker.  That is a tricky shot out of.


Andy Troeger

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2007, 11:44:48 PM »
Chris,
Thanks for posting, I know you and I have discussed Rock Hollow previously but just wanted to post here too. I agree with those that think Rock Hollow is one of the top public courses in Indiana and personally I think it should make some of the top 100 public lists too (and not just the "value" type lists, although it is a great one of those).

Rock Hollow has great variety in its routing. There are holes like the 13th, 16th, and 1st that are short fours, with long tough ones like the 2nd, 12th, and 18th. The par threes have some variety as well and are mentioned above. Many greens are open in front although sometimes the course has not played that firm. #14 and 18 are scary shots. #6 is a great uphill par five requiring three strong shots that also requires a strong layup second shot.

This course is very close to my personal ideal in terms of difficulty and appropriate risk/reward for my game (as a 3-5 handicap normally) because it presents significant challenge and yet allows for scoring with well played and thought out shots. There are very few areas as Chris mentions that would be overwhelming for the higher handicap and yet it creates a challenge when it hosts the best players in the state for various events. Highly recommended!

Doug Ralston

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #11 on: September 06, 2007, 07:10:55 AM »
Andy;

Few courses indeed are 'overwhelming' to we high handicappers. If the course is fun with lots of interesting challenges, we love to try them, even though we simply fail more often.

In fact, the only type of course we DO find overwhelming are those where failure means simply loss of ball. I have recently played a couple of those [like 'The Raven' in WV], and having only fairway and lost ball is a little much.

On the other hand, we are used to having to hit from rough, trees, bunkers etc. That's ok, it was great fun to attempt those shots, and pure delight when we actually do succeed. You folks who hit great shots as your regular fare may be missing something  ;).

Rock Hollow was tough for me, golfwise, but great to play and certainly added to my appreciation of Liddy's skills.

Take a bow Tim!

Doug

Andy Troeger

Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #12 on: September 06, 2007, 08:30:40 AM »
Doug,
That's pretty close to what I meant with the word "overwhelm" in the sense that while there are lost ball opportunities at Rock Hollow, there are areas to miss and relatively few forced carries of much note from the forward sets of tees. I think the course remains interesting and challenging for all skill levels. The more courses I've played, especially in the desert, the more I've seen the hard ones be to the point where they would overwhelm players with lost balls etc due to narrow playing corridors with "stuff" on both sides whether it be desert, swamp, trees, long grass, etc. Rock Hollow has some of that, but remains a bit more playable in my mind.

Bob Barriger

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Re:Rock Hollow Golf Club (w/pics)
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2007, 09:31:50 PM »
IMHO, one of the best public access courses in Indiana, of which there are quite a few to choose from, Purgatory, Prairie View, Bearslide (underrated), Kampen to start with.  Chris has done a great job of photographing these.  Lets see how I do tomorrow in the qualifying for the Indiana State 4Ball tournament tomorrow there.  The Smith Family takes great care of Rock Hollow, kudos to them.

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