Holes that share ground?

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

# 5 and # 6 at Sleepy Hollow ?

[Rich Goodale]

Tom

The keys to this concept are:

1.  Visibility
2.  A Clientelle/Membership with IQ's larger than the distance they can hit a lob wedge

The 1/18 corridor at St. Andrews works less because it is so wide (at least to anybody not-named Ian Baker-Finch), than because you can see the players coming towards you.  Unless you fail test #2 above, it is obvious when you can and cannot hit your ball.

The courses I play mostly these days have a lot of shared or quasi-shared gorund, and it is amazing how easily the concept works.  Of course, there is always rule#3 which is to take care of your vocal cords.  Particularly in a heavy wind, being able to shout "FORE!!!!!!" fortissimo is a very valuable skill.

Rich

[Tom_Doak]

Rich and Tom:

I agree that being able to route holes close together and even overlapping is a true sign of ability on the part of an architect.  One of the principal goals of routing is to use the natural features as much as possible, and you can get a lot more out of them if you ignore the modern convention of spacing holes 250 feet apart for liability reasons and try to work out something more clever.  

The Scots of course are masters of thrift and you see it all over their home courses.

[TEPaul]

Rich:

To have holes share ground today of course total visibility would be a must.

And I certainly agree with those who've said this kind of thing seems more dangerous in principle than it generally is in practice.

Speaking of visibility I've seen tons of holes that do not share ground that have no visibility on the tee shot, for instance, that are a whole lot more dangerous than two holes that share ground but are totally visible could ever be.

Here are two examples of holes that have no tee shot visibility that probably won't work well but for a club wrinkle. Consider how dangerous the 4th at PV and the 11th at Merion would be if both clubs were not almost totally caddie clubs?

I've have a real fondness for the 15th at Piping Rock too where I grew up. One cannot see players on the green from the approach area but that's always been solved by tapping one's putter on the big bell that hangs to the right of the green.

[SPDB]

Perhaps Mike Sweeney can add, but I seem to recall that 2 holes at LI National shared ground and at least some of the shared ground was blind off the tee, which I thought was a bit dangerous given the volume and quality of players on the course at any given time.

[Allan Hutton]

Holes 17 and 18 at the Devils Paintbrush share a fairway.  Indeed when the 17th pin is cut far back right, the best approach angle is from the far left side...or the right side of the 18th fairway.

The landing zones for these are not close, but one does still have to watch out for players walking to their ball on 18.  Funny not many members seem to take this route to the flag...perhaps embarrassment over being that far left? as it is directly under the clubhouse.  The rough does seem to limit the left side a little, need good distance control so as to avoid running out of fairway.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Wild Horse 2nd and 3rd -- upper left:

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

How could you forget # 7 and # 12 at NGLA ?

[Kalen Braley]

The 8th and 9th at CPC...especially if the tee shot on 8 is pulled to the left.

Also the 3rd and 12th at Pacific...

[TEPaul]

"TEPaul,
How could you forget # 7 and # 12 at NGLA?"

Pat:

Most likely because the left tee on #12 hasn't existed in many decades (if it ever even did) and golfers haven't intentionally played down #7 to #12 in many decades obviously because of that. The right tee, however, on #12 apparently always existed.

The important thing to note is that golfers on #7 fairway are not blind to that old left tee position of #12 as many think unless they're less than about four feet tall.

[Mark Chaplin]

Royal West Norfolk at Brancaster - 1st and 18th and the 2nd and 17th share the same strip of land.

[Adrian_Stiff]

10 holes at Painswick!

I make it 13.. ones that dont are 5, 7, 10, 15, 18

[Eric Pevoto]

Kittansett's 1st and 18th  
With the very strong easterly crosswind I played, the full width of fairways (even with the little drainage swale down the middle) came in handy.  

Any old aerials or drawings showing this as shared?  Reminded me of TOC.

[Doug Wright]

TE,

The 1st and 18th at Lundin Links should work pretty well since the golfers on the tee can see whether players on the other hole are in or near the target area (though it won't preclude the careless or unobservant as happened to me when I was there).

The worst cases are the inadvertent shared gound holes like many at Wellshire GC (Ross 1927), where I've been known to wear a hard hat. Balls come at you from all directions there.

[Glenn Spencer]

Just played one this past weekend. The Mines in Grand Rapids. #5 and #9 share a large fairway.

[Scott Szabo]

How bout the 2nd and 3rd holes at Wild Horse?  I think they would fit this description.

[Adam Clayman]

Pacific Grove has the 13th and 14th, 15th and 16th that share ground. One could argue the 15th and 11th, also.

How could I forget the 15th and 16th at Kemper Lakes. It's where I made MJ laugh as we both looked for our pulled drives on the two different holes.

[Roger Tufts]

Also, I believe the 4th tee goes over the 3rd green at Ballybunion.  

Doesn't the 18th Tee fire directly over the 17th green here as well? Maybe not from the back tees however.

The 5th and 6th holes at Bass Rocks Golf Club in Gloucester, MA share a fairway as well. Teeing off from 6 with a slice leaves the ball running way down a slope across the "5th" fairway and a horrific angle at the green. The 6th is a great hole IMO.

[Brad Swanson]

I think 9 and 10 at Greywalls would qualify as well.

Cheers,
Brad