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Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« on: July 23, 2007, 08:58:44 AM »
As a kind of addendum to that ridiculous Open vs British Open discussion that always comes up, see the attached link which highlights the full title: "The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"...

...R&A again ruling out taking it back to Portrush or to RCD in the forseeable future anyway..

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/golf/6911981.stm

Mark Bourgeois

Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2007, 09:11:42 AM »
Heh. Let this American school the R and A on their own political geography:

"The Open Championship as played in the United Kingdom."

Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2007, 09:46:02 AM »
Bottom line is RCD, Royal Portrush, Royal Porthcawl, Royal Dornoch and Saunton cannot hold the crowds for an Open Championship either within the boundaries of the links or the local/regional infrastructure.
Cave Nil Vino

G Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2007, 11:22:11 AM »
Heh. Let this American school the R and A on their own political geography:

"The Open Championship as played in the United Kingdom."

Was he not saying that at the moment it's just played in Great Britain? ...as in the island of scotland, england and wales...  ???

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2007, 11:40:00 AM »
Heh. Let this American school the R and A on their own political geography:

"The Open Championship as played in the United Kingdom."

Was he not saying that at the moment it's just played in Great Britain? ...as in the island of scotland, england and wales...  ???
I believe so.  In fact I think Mark's "schooling" was rather like Dan Quail's spelling lesson.......
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2007, 11:47:58 AM »
"It's referred to as the Open Championship played in Great Britain."

By whom?  First time I've ever seen this infelicitous phrase.  Surely this construction is just a careless choice of words by the speaker...
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2007, 11:56:34 AM »
apparently by david hill, the R&A's director of championships... he said those exact words so we can't misread them i guess... he seemed pretty clear...
 

Mark Bourgeois

Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2007, 12:28:44 PM »
Yes that is what he said but I stand by what I said -- i.e., the United Kingdom, as in the sovereign state in which the Open is held.  This "Great Britain" reference, seeing as it is to a physical geography, I say is bogus: the R&A operate inside a political geography, not a physical geography.

I don't mind the Open aligning to physical geography for purposes of defining a style of play; i.e., linksland.  But as a political body and administrator of the championship the R&A aligns with the political geography. It defines its jurisdiction over golfers according to political geography.  Its jurisdiction extends to the game of golf as played in sovereign nations. It should administer its championships accordingly to a political geography.

The R&A doesn't say it carries jurisdiction over "large bodies of land" or "properties both hilly and flat."  Yet this reference to "as played in Great Britain" is akin to that; it's like the USGA saying "The National Open as played in the middle third of North America."

They've added this qualifier ("as played in Great Britain") to a title ("Open Championship") whose primary reference is political; i.e., championship of the United Kingdom. I know, I know -- "championship of the world" business and all that notwithstanding.

I say they're using the term to reframe the debate to their own more favorable terms. I say they use the political geography; they shouldn't be allowed to concoct a term to rationalize their decision. They shouldn't be allowed to hide their NIR decision behind this fabrication.

If they're going to go with this helpfully-descriptive physical geography nomenclature, they should at least get it correct: "The Linksland Championship of Great Britain."

Apologies for the rant. I know this is a subtle point, but my reaction upon reading that article was anything but!

Mark

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2007, 12:36:27 PM »
Ally it's as if he's saying that this is a common way of referring to it and yet that description is new to me.  Had he written it I'm sure it would have been "The Open..." but even Peter Alliss discussed it being referred to as "the British Open...".  Colloquially people accept Northern Ireland as being British (I know, I know) but when you say “Great Britain” I believe you are being more specific and excluding Northern Ireland.  But it wouldn’t have been the only verbal gaffe from the R&A this past week.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2007, 12:43:58 PM by Tony Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2007, 12:44:11 PM »
mark and tony, you are both 100% spot on... i just couldn't be bothered going into those details   ;)

they are making up the term to suit themselves (as mark said) or not really thinking about what they are saying (as tony said)... incidentally, there's a lot more about this in the 'return to emerald isle' thread... it's also been known as the british open since the early days... peter alliss also explained it away very well... no big deal is the bottom line...

Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2007, 01:55:54 PM »
Why have a different geography for The Senior Open Championship which was held exclusively in Northern Ireland from 95-02 and is now also being moved around?  Shouldn't the R&A be consistent between their different competitions?

The Open Championship as played in Great Britain
The Senior Open Championship as played in the United Kingdom
or, more accurately over the last 12 years:
The Senior Open Championship as played in Northern Ireland and Scotland

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2007, 02:13:15 PM »
I think we're all over analysing part of what he said and ignoring another part.  He said they'd looked at Portrush but it didn't have the capacity.  That doesn't suggest that political geography is the reason at all, rather that the two Northern Irish courses don't have the capacity to host the Open.  The Seniors Open, with its lower crowds, is fine.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Steve Wilson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2007, 09:48:09 PM »
That would be Dan "Quayle's" spelling lesson.  

It's a small thing, but posts like this are just another brick in my road to GCA Divinity.
Some days you play golf, some days you find things.

I'm not really registered, but I couldn't find a symbol for certifiable.

"Every good drive by a high handicapper will be punished..."  Garland Bailey at the BUDA in sharing with me what the better player should always remember.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"The Open Championship as played in Great Britain"
« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2007, 04:56:56 AM »
That would be Dan "Quayle's" spelling lesson.  

It's a small thing, but posts like this are just another brick in my road to GCA Divinity.


Touche.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

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