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james soper

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friar's head v. sebonack
« on: December 12, 2006, 12:11:58 PM »
if you had the opportunity to join only one of these clubs, which one would it be and why.
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ChipRoyce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2006, 12:31:42 PM »
Sebonack;
Would be easier to sneak onto NGLA and Shinnecock :)
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Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 12:38:40 PM »
  James:

     They're both magnificent and one would be hard pressed to find better golf in a better locale than either one of them.

Both are situated on sandy loam at elevations above pristine bodies of water.

Both are exposed to the wind.

Both play firm and fast.

Both have subtle and not so subtle areas of challenge and fun.

Both are maintained and conditioned virtually on par with Augusta National.

Both are brilliant architecturally from start to finish.

Both are nurtured by benevolent dictators who LOVE their creations.

Both have take your breath away clubhouses with pristine overlooks and are beyond perfect places to repair to after your round(s) is finished.

The only small perceived difference MAY be that Friar's has more of a club feel while Sebonack seems like more of a total retreat.

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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Yannick Pilon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2006, 12:50:54 PM »
Very good question James.

First off, both of these courses are extremely good.  I would cry like a little girl if I could join any of these two.  But that being said, I would have to go for Friars Head.

Why Friars Head?  Mostly because of a few little (and I do mean little) things that Sebonack has going against it, IMHO.

Things like a first hole that doesnt seems like it fits with the rest of the golf course.  The obtrusive presence of a few condos overlooking that first hole.  Two man made ponds that look like they don't totally fit there. And finally, a few holes that left me somehow indifferent, although they would be great probably anywhere else (Namely, 13, 15 & 16).

On the other hand, Friars Head has a few things going for it as well.  Things like a routing that is simply inspired.  An interesting mix of holes and settings.  A great practice area and a nice practice course.  And finally, the absence of any condos, roads or any development that intrudes in the course.  All this gives you a feeling of being alone in a golfing heaven.

In a few words, that place seemed just perfect to me.  

Anobody should jump on a chance to play any of these courses.  But if I had to choose, again, it would be Friars Head.

YP
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www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Yannick Pilon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2006, 12:54:45 PM »
Gene,

Its funny you say Sebonack feels more like a retreat.  While there this fall, I felt Sebonack had a little more of a "Golf Club" or "Country Club" ambiance, where you come in to enjoy great golf, and great people.  The clubhouse area almost has a village feel to it.

On the other hand, Friars Head felt more like a "Golf Course", where you come to play golf.  Discreet entrance, small parking lot, relaxed atmosphere.... By the way, that's a good thing to me. ;)

Just my two cents.  And those were just "feelings", as both of these courses have their clubhouses under construction.

YP
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www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2006, 01:33:23 PM »
If you can afford Sebonack, you can afford to have both.  No reason to choose between the two.. ;)
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Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2006, 01:40:24 PM »
Sean, unfortunatly many cannot afford either.
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"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2006, 01:45:55 PM »
Scott,

99.9 percent can't afford either..
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Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2006, 02:07:22 PM »
Quote from: Yannick Pilon on December 12, 2006, 12:54:45 PM
Gene,

Its funny you say Sebonack feels more like a retreat.  While there this fall, I felt Sebonack had a little more of a "Golf Club" or "Country Club" ambiance, where you come in to enjoy great golf, and great people.  The clubhouse area almost has a village feel to it.

On the other hand, Friars Head felt more like a "Golf Course", where you come to play golf.  Discreet entrance, small parking lot, relaxed atmosphere.... By the way, that's a good thing to me. ;)

Just my two cents.  And those were just "feelings", as both of these courses have their clubhouses under construction.

YP


Yannick:

    And that's my observation.

    I believe Bobby Jones had said in "Golf is My Game" that Augusta was set up as a retreat.  Pine Valley and Sand Hills among others are also set up as retreats or "little villages" in your words where members come and play for several days and stay in overnight accomodations which each house multiple members.

Sebonack has those cottages built  and available for their members. There are NO local residents who are members of Sebonack, which I believe is by design, and many locals can well afford to be there. There it appears that members bring their game

Friar's feels like, as you alluded to, a golf course. However, in many cases members may have games arranged for them with other members and their guest(s) in advance or even after they've arrived. This may also eventually be the case at Sebonack once members connect with one another.



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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2006, 02:33:35 PM »
Sean,

Do you know the fee for Friar's Head?
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"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2006, 03:17:32 PM »
Quote from: Scott Szabo on December 12, 2006, 01:40:24 PM
Sean, unfortunatly many cannot afford either.


And many who COULD afford both will NEVER be invited to join either!! :o
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The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2006, 03:18:49 PM »
I'm thankful that those who have played either or both are willing to share their experiences.  Maybe Ran will do us all a favor and post a review on each!
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"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

Matt MacIver

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2006, 03:38:06 PM »
Scott - FYI, Ran does have a review of Friar's Head.  The accompanying black-and-white pictures are the primary reason I hold the course in such high esteem and place it in my top 5 want-to-sees.  
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Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2006, 04:05:30 PM »
Matt - thanks.  I had forgotten that there was one already done (I had actually went through it a time or two).
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"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

PThomas

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2006, 04:05:32 PM »
I wonder if anyone is a member of  both!  :o
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199 played, only Augusta National left to play!

Patrick_Mucci

Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2006, 04:53:10 PM »
Wouldn't it depend upon where you live ?  ;D

I don't think you could go wrong with either choice.

Both are wonderful golf courses.

I like the "culture" that Ken Bakst is trying to cultivate at Friar's Head, and there may be more local members at Friar's Head, making it easier to get a game when you just show up.

Both courses have to be viewed as "Club Paradise" if you're a golfer.
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Mike Sweeney

Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2007, 08:02:30 PM »
A little update on Friar's Head:

1. Sweeney was wrong, the 4th is a very good hole as it plays normally with a cross wind.

2. The 5th hole continues to confirm why I love Coore and Crenshaw courses. It is the short 4's and I for one don't mind if these are a "template".

3. The drainage issues between 6 and 7 are clearing up and the grass between the holes is growing in. It never touched the hole play, but visually it was there.

4. The entire right side of #9 has now been cleared of trees. Visually a completely different hole. Drama of the sand, dunes, clubhouse and Long Island Sound now visable needs to be seen.

5. The 11th hole now has a new very large intimidating center bunker off the tee. Take it to the left narrow fairway for a shot at a two shot hole, take it right for a safe three shot hole or take it in the bunker like me for a scramble for your life hole!

6. The 14th has a new Coore/MacKenzie knob in front of the green to create some bounces and steer some balls away from the traditional collection spot when shots fall short.

7. 15 appears to be wider, but I could be wrong as I played well.

8. I said at least twice, "well they don't build stuff like this anymore" in reference to the clubhouse. The stonework will remind you of Winged Foot. The proshop, clubhouse, putting green, 1 and 10 tees and 9 and 18 greens will basically all blend in together in one continuous motion. The distance between changing your shoes, checking in, practice putts, tee off on 1 or 10 will feel like your living room when the clubhouse gets finished. The cabins are under way. It is a 100% golf club.

9. I will miss the temporary clubhouse which is/will be the practice facility.

10. I can't think of a decision that Ken Bakst has made that I would change starting with his decision to hire Jim Kidd. The entire staff is a relection of Jim's Sand Hills hospitality.

#3 on the Long Island Sweeney Scale jumping past Piping Rock and Maidstone.

PS. I have not played Sebonack.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2007, 08:08:28 PM by Mike Sweeney »
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cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2007, 08:10:46 PM »
I have been told that there are members who belong to both.

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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2007, 10:58:34 PM »
Cary:

I'm not aware of anyone who is a member of both Friar's Head and Sebonack, but I could be wrong ... I don't know all of the members of Sebonack.

However, I was amazed by the fact that there are at least two guys who are members of Shinnecock, National, and Sebonack ... and I'm glad to know both of them!
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Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2007, 05:41:31 AM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 20, 2007, 10:58:34 PM
However, I was amazed by the fact that there are at least two guys who are members of Shinnecock, National, and Sebonack...

  And one of those two is also a member of Sand Hills...

and Pine Valley.........and Seminole.......and Augusta.......
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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Scott Szabo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2007, 08:32:30 AM »
Quote from: Gene Greco on May 21, 2007, 05:41:31 AM
Quote from: Tom_Doak on May 20, 2007, 10:58:34 PM
However, I was amazed by the fact that there are at least two guys who are members of Shinnecock, National, and Sebonack...

  And one of those two is also a member of Sand Hills...

and Pine Valley.........and Seminole.......and Augusta.......

Must be a tough choice getting up in the morning and deciding which course to play......

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"So your man hit it into a fairway bunker, hit the wrong side of the green, and couldn't hit a hybrid off a sidehill lie to take advantage of his length? We apologize for testing him so thoroughly." - Tom Doak, 6/29/10

John Kirk

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Re:friar's head v. sebonack
« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2007, 08:58:51 AM »
To continue in the same vein, I know a Stone Eagle member who is also a member at National and Shinnecock.  Also, there is a Ballyneal member who is a member at Sebonack.

I haven't played Sebonack yet, but Friar's Head is a great place.
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