[Greg Cameron]

Being pac nor west guy,never expeirienced bermuda too much,but helped a friend in arizona desert last 3-4years,and realized battle to keep bent greens bent.Do greens well barriers help?Do blue grass/ryegrass collars help?Any suggestions?Public golf, so budget is a factor.....Greg

[Don_Mahaffey]

Greg,
Lots of methods have been tried, all have pros and cons with no silver bullet discovered that I know of.
The plastic barriers don't work all that well and can be a major pain as they always seem to "show" and the bermuda will go over the top of them which means you end up needing to edge around them. After repeated edging you usually end up destroying them over time.
Rye grass collars are used by some of the big courses. They simply spray the collar every year shortly before overseeding and kill everything, bermuda, rye and anything else and start fresh each year. Problem is bermuda isn't always taken out with one spray and the rye collars can get pretty bad in the late summer heat.
Some guys just keep on a consistent greens edging program and diligently watch for any contamination and hand pick it out. The low budget courses can't usually afford the labor, but I believe this is the best method.
One other thing, for some reason the bermuda seems to reappear in the same spots each year. Of course you can get it everywhere if things get out of hand, but if you’re staying on top of the encroachment, I believe it's smart to map the areas where the bermuda is taken out, especially if you get any in the interior part of the green. If you know where it's going to show, you can get it out before the rhizomes travel too far and cause more problems.
Good luck.

[Greg Cameron]

Don,thanks,any word on" round up ready"bent?For me only heard rumours,just like rumours of tiny paint brushes of round up on bermuda leaves?true?....Greg

[Don_Mahaffey]

Greg,
Round-up ready bent is not coming anytime soon. And even if it does, with the cost of seed and the annual licensing fee the breeder has planned, I doubt you'll see many low-mid level budget courses planting the grass.

I have seen small artist brushes with straight round-up, or very strong mixtures, used on bermuda. But, it has to be done carefully as I've also seen some pretty ugly outcomes. If the roundup gets moved with any water or tracked about it can get ugly. The guy applying needs to be very careful, all traffic needs to be kept away and no water run for a day or two to allow the chemical to get completely taken up or broken down. Even heavy dew the next day can leave you with patches of dead grass.  

[Greg Cameron]

Don, thanks again,how about the why fight it strategy and have bermuda greens,like us in pac nor wes with poa?Thoughts,,,,,Greg

[paul cowley]

Greg, good question and I look forward to Dons answer.
In the SE we are seeing more courses not over seeding the ultra dwarf Bermudas. They are just lightly painting the greens, combined with occasional warm spell mowing and rolling and the surfaces are more than satisfactory.
At one course I know some members like the dormant surface better.....it can get rolling quite fast...dead firm and fast

And of course transition is a cinch because it doesn't exist .

[Don_Mahaffey]

Greg,
The desert is actually a great place to grow bent, provided the greens are built properly, the water quality isn't horrible, your not a golf factory doing huge amounts of rounds, and you have the resources to get and retain a good Superintendent. There is some very high quality bent grown in AZ.

Sure bermuda is "safer" as you rarely have to worry about disease taking it out overnight and an irrigation shut down in mid-summer is survivable. But, the ultadwarfs are no picnic to manage. I'm not convinced that bent doesn't make more sense where the conditions I alluded to above can be met.
I'll take bent every time both as a golfer and as a super if the conditions are right.

[BCrosby]

Paul -

As noted, painted dormant Bermuda greens can be terrific. Happy to hear it is still being done.

Bob

[Steve Okula]

Don,

What would you think about a bentgrass green with a collar of Tifdwarf or one of the other less aggressive bermudas. I have a theory that the dense Dwarf would inhibit the fairway variety 419 bermuda yet not encroach so aggressively on the bent. I never had the chance to put it to the test, though.

The thing about "Round-up ready" bentgrass is that's fine if you want to control Poa annua, but bermuda grasses all come "Round-up ready" to one degree or another. I don't know how much Round-up the tolerant strains of bent will stand, but I do know that you can't count on Round-up to kill bermuda at whatever the rate.

[S. Huffstutler]

I would suggest a collar of Emerald Dwarf. Much less laterally aggressive, strong root system, mostly rhizomatous selection out of a TifDwarf green by Morris Brown. It's a really nice greens grade grass, but would make a superb tee, collar and fairway grass for those places that like it mowed tight.
I've grown bent and bermuda and I'll take the bermuda anytime...it at least wants to live.

Steve

[Greg Cameron]

Steve,I gather that re bermuda wanting to live,it seems hard to kill so almost why fight it?Bent is beatiful,but help me out here,the Emarld dwarf you suggest is bermuda? Do you overseed greens with rye in winter? Just learning....Greg

[paul cowley]

Steve...."at least it wants to live" is great.

I think it s really weird to see so much effort put to grasses born to live on life support for much of thier lives.....which I think has become a less desirable part of the advancement practices we now see with regards to turf agronomy and irrigation this past decade or so.

Has anyone noticed that 500+ heads used to cover a course, as opposed to the 1000 + plus I see more and more?

Irrigation has gone from 20% of the cost to construct a new course to one third or higher in certain situations....

Elite Turf, Maintenance and Irrigation....the three horses of the pending Apocalypse.........

[Don_Mahaffey]

Steve O,
I would think a good dwarf such as emerald bermuda would make a fine collar, but it can still encroach and it's a little sneaky as it sort of just creeps a little at a time. Still need to keep a close eye on the green edge.
419 is in your face and easy to spot, the slow movers can catch you by surprise and gobble up a foot of green if you lose track of where the edge should be. Zoysia is also being used by some courses and may turn out to be the best choice of all.

Steve H,
My take on the bermuda-bent choice is one based on working in AZ where you have to overseed (I know there are exceptions, but not many) and you are really playing on the overseed for 4-6 months...much different than the southeast. In the SW the two transitions a year are a bitch and if I have the tools, I chose bent in that environment. Here on the TX coast, or in the humid Deep South, bermuda is an easy choice.  

Greg,
Yes emerald is a bermuda, in fact we are planting it on our course here on the TX coast. All the greens, tees and green surrounds will be emerald, about 15 acres in total. It looks to be a very good grass. We will not be overseeding, but I'm guessing your friend in AZ will be, and although many courses down there are bermuda, there are also some very good bent greens, and they are not all at the high end courses.

[paul cowley]

I played two Atlanta courses earlier this week...Peachtree and Atlanta Athletic Club.
Both had zoysia fairways and collars, bent greens and bermuda rough.....and major maintenance budgets...and little room to change cut lines .....little room to change anything really.

Change I guess is over rated.

[S. Huffstutler]

Change is not necessarily a good thing, with different grasses in different areas, at least you know where the designer wanted the fairways and roughs to be.

I don't overseed my greens here in Florida, but I overseed everything else, so I get the pleasure of two transitions a year as well.

Steve

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