Pat Mucci--Rater! The MGA top 50

[Geoffrey Childs]

Hamilton

Here is my personal favorite Top 10 in the MGA.  Feel free to ask any questions you wish but I will rebut and ask you back your reasons for any disagreements. Note that the criteria are my own personal preferences and not any magazines.

1- NGLA
2- Shinnecock Hills
3- Friars Head
4- Bethpage Black
5- Fishers Island
6- Garden City Golf Club
7- Maidstone
8- Plainfield
9- Hollywood
10- Winged Foot East

[Jason Blasberg]

I wouldn't worry too much about a list that has Quaker Ridge as the 6th best in the Met.  

Omitting Engineers is a fundamental flaw considering it's better than 4 of the top 10 that I've played.

[Chris Cupit]

Hamilton

Here is my personal favorite Top 10 in the MGA.  Feel free to ask any questions you wish but I will rebut and ask you back your reasons for any disagreements. Note that the criteria are my own personal preferences and not any magazines.

1- NGLA
2- Shinnecock Hills
3- Friars Head
4- Bethpage Black
5- Fishers Island
6- Garden City Golf Club
7- Maidstone
8- Plainfield
9- Hollywood
10- Winged Foot East

I've played a lot at Winged Foot and was curious as to your preference of the East over the West.  Some people I've met also prefer the East and the usual reasons are:
1.  Greater variety of holes with respect to lengths.
2.  Great par 3's that may be better overall than the West's
3.  Some water in play.
4.  More severe (interesting?) greens.

My only dislike is the 8th hole--the converted par 5 needs to have the green re-done since at modern speeds it is just too ridiculous.  

Just curious if there is more as well to the East's charms that I am missing.  (I do think the added length on the West has made me move closer and closer to liking the East better).

[Noel Freeman]

Hammy-

These lists are fun for me and I like the debate.. I realize some think they are a matter of life and death but I view them as the league tables on Wall Street.. Sometimes a bank will underwrite their own bonds just to take the top spot, it doesn't mean they are the best etc..

My top 20 that I have PLAYED OR WALKED

NGLA
Shinny
Friars Head
WF West
Bethpage
Fishers
Maidstone
Somerset
WF East
Plainfield--I was wrong in my previous comment, it deserves where it is.
Hollywood
Fenway
Fairfield
Piping Rock
Sebonack
Creek
Sleepy
Engineers
Essex County
Metedeconk

Ho Hum..pretty boring you may say

[Geoffrey Childs]

Hamilton

Here is my personal favorite Top 10 in the MGA.  Feel free to ask any questions you wish but I will rebut and ask you back your reasons for any disagreements. Note that the criteria are my own personal preferences and not any magazines.

1- NGLA
2- Shinnecock Hills
3- Friars Head
4- Bethpage Black
5- Fishers Island
6- Garden City Golf Club
7- Maidstone
8- Plainfield
9- Hollywood
10- Winged Foot East

I've played a lot at Winged Foot and was curious as to your preference of the East over the West.  Some people I've met also prefer the East and the usual reasons are:
1.  Greater variety of holes with respect to lengths.
2.  Great par 3's that may be better overall than the West's
3.  Some water in play.
4.  More severe (interesting?) greens.

My only dislike is the 8th hole--the converted par 5 needs to have the green re-done since at modern speeds it is just too ridiculous.  

Just curious if there is more as well to the East's charms that I am missing.  (I do think the added length on the West has made me move closer and closer to liking the East better).

Chris

You about nailed my reasons for choosing the East course at WF except for the water. On second thought I might drop WF from my list as they have changed five greens this past year.  The 8th that you objected to was a real killer but I believe they took too much sting out of it and its now possible to recover from about anywhere and to any pin.  We spent a long time on that green hitting shots from all around and different putts.  Similarly, the others (#2 and 3 others on the back 9 I think) are neutered to some degree.

I love the par 3's and their variety on the East. The short 14th and the long 17th are the best two par 3's on the property and that (IMHO) includes #10 West.

However, given the change to the 5 greens -

Replace WF East with Engineers or Somerset Hills in my top 10.

[Jason Blasberg]

at least they got Tuxedo right.

[Chris Cupit]

Wow,

I had no idea they changed 5 greens.

#2 was severe but as long as they kept it a shortish Par 5, it was (i think) perfect for that hole.  You knew you just had to keep the ball short and right or risk hitting your third shot off the green.  I hope they didn't convert it to a par 4 and then justify pancaking the green because it needed to accept a 5-iron

I also really like the 6th hole--an absolutely fabulous par 3.  #14 is great and so is #17 although I am not a fan of the new tee--that green is so severe that from 240 I think the only play in stroke play is to not even try and hit the green but play short and right!  At 210 it made you feel like you should be able to hit the green with a 5 iron or so going down that hill.  Maybe the hardest damn hole in the world relative to par without a bunker, water hazard or OB anywhere in play!!

Oh, and #3 is great too.

As for #8, while I thought the old green, originally designed as a short par 5, was "over the top".  But I am sad to hear it was completely neutered.  I have no problem with some hole locations or some spots being impossible.  Sometimes you hit it where you just can't recover and that's fine with me.  

If it is recoverable from anywhere, that is just as bad as being recoverable from nowhere (to me )

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

I wouldn't worry too much about a list that has Quaker Ridge as the 6th best in the Met.  

Omitting Engineers is a fundamental flaw considering it's better than 4 of the top 10 that I've played.

Jason,

Perhaps one of the reasons that Engineers wasn't rated higher is that I've never played it ?  

In my evaluation I only addressed courses I have played.

I can't speak for the other panelists, but, they too may have been limited in their selections by their limited experiences, at least one would hope that none of the panelists exercised a common practice amongst GCA.comers and analyzed and evaluated golf courses that they have never played.

When I was asked to be a part of this project I knew that there was NO perfect order, and that due to the nature of the panelist's experience and preferences that some of the evaluations would be open to question.

Quite frankly, I don't understand some of the relative positions, inclusions  and deletions.

For those who view the list as mouth watering, I'd venture to say that the next 50 would be equally as impressive.

There are some wonderful golf courses not included in the top 50 that I would recommend to anyone.

[Matt_Ward]

Geoff:

Any patrticular reason why Fenway doesn't make your personal top 10?

If asked without knowing your listing I would think Fenway would have finished higher than Maidstone and Hollywood which you list ahead of it.

Thanks ...

[Geoffrey Childs]

Geoff:

Any patrticular reason why Fenway doesn't make your personal top 10?

If asked without knowing your listing I would think Fenway would have finished higher than Maidstone and Hollywood which you list ahead of it.

Thanks ...

Matt

I have a great affection for Fenway and its architecture.  It falls just below those I listed from a fun to play and quality of architecture viewpoint.  Maidstone is a total blast to play and offers a pretty unique environment, wind and links type playing characteristics that I enjoy.  Hollywood has an even better set of greens then Fenway and offers similar tee to green challenges. I tried not to be too much of a homer.

PS- I forget to list Siwanoy as yet another great course not mentioned in the Top 50.  As Pat mentioned, there are a wealth of truly outstanding courses in the MET section.