News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


John Kavanaugh

Internships
« on: April 03, 2007, 10:29:23 AM »
With my daughter living and going to school in LA I have suddenly became aware of this massive internship culture that exists in the workplace.  Are interships as poplular in other large cities and do they exist in the golf industry.  I would think that every legit golf course architect could get free personal assistants from any nearby university.

How would you describe the responsibilities of a golf course architect personal assistant and are they even worth the trouble?

Peter Zarlengo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2007, 11:00:31 AM »
Internships are pretty much all students seem to care about in design related fields.  There is definately a stigma associated with landing a summer internship with a big name firm.  All of my friends look and interview constantly for internships, whether in business, engineering, or architectural fields.  Its just one of those "next step" sort of things.

Personally, I think that most design students time would be better spent working in construction or maintenance.  Not to say that internships arent a valuable experience, but as a second year student one probably needs to grasp the basics and acquire more skills before being able to contribute to the final design phase.

John Kavanaugh

Re:Internships
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2007, 11:10:27 AM »

There is definately a stigma associated with landing a summer internship with a big name firm.  


I have always thought of a stigma to be a bad thing...

Peter Zarlengo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2007, 11:33:25 AM »
Im not necessarily saying that interships are a bad thing.  I just feel that people seem to feel entitled to an intership when they havent learned enough or just arent as strong as the competition applying for these few prestigious spots.

Stigma may be the wrong word, but there is most certainly a buzz associated with students who have and dont have summer internships lined up with big name companies.

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2007, 11:51:40 AM »
A potential intern came to my office saying he wanted to be a golf architect in the worst way......and I had to reply that working for me would qualify in the eyes of golf club atlas participants.........

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2007, 12:15:17 PM »
A potential intern came to my office saying he wanted to be a golf architect in the worst way......and I had to reply that working for me would qualify in the eyes of golf club atlas participants.........



Ba Dah Boom!

 ;D
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2007, 02:00:26 PM »
I interned for a relatively well known designer a few years ago, and I will tell you, quite simply, that the summer could have been better spent.  He was moving offices at the time, and I spent hours filing and re-filing reports, plans, and other project related documents from nearly his entire career.  I also had the opportunity to construct desks and cabinets, and to move furniture (please note the sarcasm).  

To be fair, he did take me on a handful of site visits, was usually willing to call ahead to courses that he had built and arrange a tee-time, and had an extensive library which was available to me to read through at any time, and simply looking at the old documents was intriguing.  He actually had hand-drawn contour maps for green complexes he had designed earlier in his career!!

What it comes down to, though, is time.  Few are going to be able to gain trust in during a 3-month internship, so it's a rarity that anyone will do more than be able to listen in on a few meetings, or do some CAD work or Photoshop rendering.  

My advice to future interns, then, would be to make yourself available for a minimum of six (6) months, if not a year, if you plan to get any real sense of what it is like to design a golf course.  Or, as stated earlier, you might be better off actually seeing a course built by working in construction.  I hate saying that, since it's not what I wanted to hear at the time, but my construction experience was invaluable.
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
               -Rene Descartes

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2007, 10:33:47 AM »
We have had a few interns over the years. But for the past 3-4 years we have not had the room. This summer we are deciding whether to have someone in for about 4 months. While it can be a win-win situation, it still takes time to give the student some quality time — and to monitor what they are doing. If you wind up with the "wrong" person itcan make for a long summer!
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

John Kavanaugh

Re:Internships
« Reply #8 on: April 04, 2007, 10:40:06 AM »
We have had a few interns over the years. But for the past 3-4 years we have not had the room. This summer we are deciding whether to have someone in for about 4 months. While it can be a win-win situation, it still takes time to give the student some quality time — and to monitor what they are doing. If you wind up with the "wrong" person itcan make for a long summer!

Forrest,

I'm not sure you are aware but Ryan Farrow posts on this site and attends Arizona State.  He seems like an outstanding young man with a keen interest in architecture.  You should send him a note.

Forrest Richardson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #9 on: April 04, 2007, 11:31:49 AM »
If we decide to go forward, yes. That would be convenient.
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Internships
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2007, 06:39:58 AM »
John:

Ryan is busy because he is one of my interns this summer, working on our project at Rock Creek in Montana.  Hopefully he will find the experience of value.

After some reflection I have changed our internship program this year.  In years past, we've chosen one or two interns out of a pool of 50 and given them six weeks on site and six in the office.  We've also tried to place some of the runners-up on construction crews, and in some cases, those turned out to be the best of the group and the hardest workers.  Two of them are getting more and more involved in shaping on our latest projects ... Ryan will meet one of them in Montana.

So, this year, I've found jobs on construction crews for as many applicants as I could ... six in all, three in Oregon, two in Montana, and one in California.  We'll get to see what they are like for a whole summer, and at the end we will choose one or two to do an office/travel internship, either this fall or next spring depending on their availability.

John, we pay all of our interns a fair wage.  I get offers for free help all the time, but that would obligate me to spend a certain amount of time with them which I may or may not have, and I make enough money that I don't need to nickel and dime the interns.  As Forrest says, the hardest part is to make time for everyone ... my time is pretty well divided up already.  But at least we are trying to give some exposure to the best candidates and to let them find out if this is really a career they will love or whether the reality is not as engaging as the fantasy.  

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2007, 11:21:36 AM »
We don't call it an internship program (maybe we should), but Rod Whitman and I currently have two intern-types working with us, and possibly another two coming this summer (one has us second on his list, behind Doak!).

Like Doak's interns, they're paid a fair wage. What's best is, they're enthusiastic about building golf courses. We hope they'll be able to handle the daily work in the dirt, life on the road, and learn to shape, etc. with intent to build a talented and trusted crew... much like Doak's done.  
jeffmingay.com

Matthew Hunt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2007, 02:38:39 PM »
Does any-one Know were I can get an Internship or on-site experiance this side of the pond.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Internships
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2007, 05:04:51 PM »
Matthew,

Which side of which pond are you on?!
jeffmingay.com