News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom Huckaby

Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2006, 02:15:29 PM »
Tim - well you know I'd love to play any time, anywhere, any how as my crazy life permits... but I am sure FAR from a MacKenzie expert!  There are a few on here though - and it sounds like if they played Haggin Oaks they might leave weeping.

 ;)


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2006, 02:50:21 PM »
Indian Valley Golf Club - the first home course of "Panhandle Bill" McBride!  It was a great place to learn to play golf up there in the wilds of 1950's Novato.  Quite hilly back nine, not many level lies, tiny greens, good variety of holes.  Driveable #9 par 4, even if you did miss the 3' eagle putt!  ::)  And yes, the cable car from #13 green to #14 tee, god help you if it broke down as a hike up cardiac hill ensued.

And many golf balls lost on the hill in the 90* dogleg right of #18!

Beautiful old oaks, deer foraging at sunset...Indian Valley is probably still a lovely if quirky course.  

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2006, 02:57:50 PM »
   Well being from the Midwest and never having been out to California, in particular the GREATER Bay Area, I will definately need to prioritize.  I included such a large area because then you gentlemen will include most courses worth seeing within the area I have established.  So by doing so, hopefully I can create a list of The Best of the Best, in a two to three hour radius of San Fran, and be able to play as many as possible when I am in the neighborhood.

I will make a note not to rush to Haggin Oaks, Fountain Valley, Napa Valley, or Green Hills.

   Not sure why I had Harding Park marked, but clearly no Mackenzie connection.  The suggestions have been great, and I will certainly add Presidio, Granite Bay, the Monterey Pen. Publics, Mira Vista, Cinnabar Hills, Corde Valle, Orinda, and Los Altos.  I will start doing more research on each course, and start priortizing my list.

   This is why these threads are great, I would have missed several courses that people with the same preferences also enjoy!!!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Tom Huckaby

Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2006, 03:12:36 PM »
Jonathan - very cool - this is a fun exercise for us locals as well.

 ;D

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2006, 05:32:49 PM »
I know Mr. Doak didn't speak very highly of it, but how about Half Moon Bay Golf Links.  Is it really that bad??
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Tom Huckaby

Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2006, 05:35:58 PM »
I know Mr. Doak didn't speak very highly of it, but how about Half Moon Bay Golf Links.  Is it really that bad??

Doak likely dissed the older of the two courses, imaginatively now called "The Old" course.  It's a Palmer/Duane housefest with one over-rated hole on the ocean... OK, it's not THAT bad - there are a few interesting holes - it just pisses me off how they sell it as a seaside course and it's anything but.

The new course there - called The Links - is Art Hills and gets dissed on here just because so many seem to be anti-Hills, but I think it is pretty damn good - it is VERY much worth seeing.

Just don't pay for either of them if you can avoid it - as is the case with most Bay Area courses, they are mucho expensivo to play.

TH

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2006, 05:46:05 PM »
Another course that is interesting is Diablo CC.  Also Willie Watson I believe.  It has a couple of outstanding holes, some great greensites...

Tom Huckaby

Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2006, 05:52:36 PM »
Another course that is interesting is Diablo CC.  Also Willie Watson I believe.  It has a couple of outstanding holes, some great greensites...

GREAT call!  Yes - Diablo is a very interesting course, well worth play and study.

That gets me to thinking about others in the greater Pleasanton/Livermore area.... each of these are worth the time:

Castlewood CC - both courses Valley and Hill - not sure the arky, but both are very interesting

Ruby Hills - study in Nicklaus overkill.  Make low priority, but still worth playing

Poppy Ridge - NCGA course, 3 nines, much discussed and much-dissed in here, but definitely fine public golf.  Take a cart.

Wente Vineyards - very cool Norman course, used to have a profile in here - very much worth seeing, MacKenzie-ish traits all over.


Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2006, 05:55:59 PM »
I know Mr. Doak didn't speak very highly of it, but how about Half Moon Bay Golf Links.  Is it really that bad??

Doak likely dissed the older of the two courses, imaginatively now called "The Old" course.  It's a Palmer/Duane housefest with one over-rated hole on the ocean... OK, it's not THAT bad - there are a few interesting holes - it just pisses me off how they sell it as a seaside course and it's anything but.
The new course there - called The Links - is Art Hills and gets dissed on here just because so many seem to be anti-Hills, but I think it is pretty damn good - it is VERY much worth seeing.Just don't pay for either of them if you can avoid it - as is the case with most Bay Area courses, they are mucho expensivo to play.TH

I second you on both Half Moon's, and would like to add another public that shouldn't be missed, Lake Chabot Golf Course in the Oakland hills. It is unique, has some history and has maybe the best view in the bay area, on a clear day you can see the whole bay and both bridges from one hole on the back side and how many courses can claim a 660 yard par 6 downhill finishing hole that can be reached in two.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tom Huckaby

Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2006, 06:00:13 PM »
Yahoooo!

Allow me to second you then on Lake Chabot - great call - very much worth seeing.  Just be careful on the drive in....

 ;)

That then brings to mind others near it... Sequoyah CC comes to mind and hasn't been mentioned yet... darn fine course.

TH

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2007, 09:04:11 PM »
Well, after spending seven awesome months in the Bay Area, I have concluded that there are plenty of courses to keep one busy for atleast a year.  The people I've meet, the places I've seen, and the variety of designs and layouts is spectacular.

I must take a moment to thank the head professionals of these various courses and clubs who have allowed me to play, and my own head pro, for helping a student of architecture in his pursuit to play and study some of the best courses NorCal has to offer.  Thank You All!

It has been a pleasure meeting fellow members in the area, Sean Tully, Mike Benham, Tom Huckaby, Ed Getka, Josh Smith, and Emmy Moore-Demerntz

So in conclusion, I have ranked the 23 courses that I had the distinct pleasure of playing and made remarks about them that are both honest and hopefully humorous.  Some remarks are candid, but that is what this site is all about.  Please, take offense to none, but enjoy them all!

1.   San Francisco Golf Club
This is the epitome of golf architecture in the Bay Area.  The course provides an absolutely awesome feel.  The shear size and scale of the course make it one of a kind.  The bunkering has to be some of the most creative in the world.  I’m struggling with adjectives here.  SPECTACULAR!  If you’re invited on your wedding day, reschedule the wedding!

2.   Monterey Peninsula Country Club – Shore
Now I haven’t played at Bandon or in Scotland, but this course had the firmest, fastest conditions throughout the entire golf course that I have experienced.  If you short sided yourself, you were absolutely screwed.  Strantz did a wonderful job adding spectacular movement and bunkering to this golf course, and this is truly one of the best in the area, and that’s saying something considering its neighbors.

3.   Pasatiempo Golf Club
This is the epitome of public golf.  For the public to be able to play this Mackenzie gem any day they choose, this is one of the treasures of the state.  These are probably the fastest greens on a public course I’ve ever played.  The course gets off to a great start with 900 yards of par fours in two holes, and certainly doesn’t let up on number three.  The course is jam packed with GREAT, and I mean GREAT holes.  While I’m typing this I am considering moving it to #2.

4.   Spyglass Hill Golf Course
One of the finest public golf courses the United States has to offer, of course, it follows a better designed public course.  The first five holes are the best on the course.  I could play these five all day long.  The greens are fantastic and always provide a stiff challenge.  If you get a chance to play Spyglass, remember Luke Donald and Phil Mickelson have both shot 62 in tournament conditions on this monster.  WOW!

5.   The Olympic Club – Lake
I was not as impressed with the course as I thought I would be, however my expectations were set quite high.  The course is fairly straight forward and can certainly test the best.  The greens roll amazingly well, as anything headed towards Lake Merced doesn’t stop rolling.  The Lake course is a stern test to say the least, but not a model in architecture like the first three.  I will say the tree removal has been extraordinary.  I’ve seen pictures where I didn’t recognize any of the holes!  It will be fun to watch the Amateurs navigate this great test.

6.   Meadow Club
My home course for seven months!  Maybe I’m a bit prejudice but the course has some of the best greens in NorCal.  The 3rd green is one of the BEST any where.  Mike DeVries did a fantastic job restoring the course to a better representation of its former self.  The greens are massive and this makes for interesting pin positions and shot making opportunities day after day.

7.   Mayacama Golf Club
This course is an extraordinary test of ones golfing ability.  Built in Snoopy’s backyard, it is one Nicklaus’ best designs to date.  The greens are perched along creeks and ravines which make for some very intimate settings.  Mayacama is an absolutely wonderful golfers club, with a great professional caddie program.  Greens were fast even after aerification!  This is a tough, tough course.

8.   CordeValle Golf Club
This was a BIG surprise.  A great modern course designed by the RTJ Jr. Group.  The course is maintained extremely well, and the greens are quite slick.  The bunkering is on a grand scale.  There are some interesting classical features as there are representations of both a redan and reverse redan, and a horseshoe feature in the second green.  This is a great course and is one of the sleepers in the Bay Area.  It’s quite expensive as well, but well worth it.

9.   The Peninsula Golf and Country Club
Whether there is much Donald Ross left here or not, Ron Forse did a great job restoring this amazing layout.  This was another big surprise as I hadn’t heard of it before arriving in the area.  The greens have some magnificent features!  One of the best sets in the Bay Area.  I don’t know what the course was like prior to the restoration, but it is certainly something to check out now.

10.   California Golf Club
It will be interesting to see what Kyle Phillips does with this Mackenzie gem.  This course has a very old school, parkland feel.  It is a delightful walk if nothing else.  The clubhouse looks over the 18th, 11th and 12th holes and makes for an awesome panorama.  This course has some distinctive Mackenzie type holes, and like I said, it will be interesting to see what comes of the course post-restoration, or is it going to be a renovation?  We shall see!

11.   Cinnabar Hills Golf Club
This is an awesome public golf facility just west of San Jose.  The Canyon and Lake Nines are the strongest two nines.  This course is very well maintained and there are some very neat holes.  The greens have some good movement and there are some neat features such as a tree in the middle of the fairway, extreme uphill and downhill holes, and absolutely stunning views of the region.  The Brandenburg Golf Museum is an amazing collection of vintage golf memorabilia.

12.   Lake Merced Golf Club
This Mackenzie course is far from what it used to be.  It has a very Medinah-esque feel to it.  Rees Jones, added some toughness, but that’s about it.  The third and forth holes are rather interesting.  There are some good holes but all and all it’s a fairly average course.  I did like holes fifteen through eighteen as they provided some interesting variety and elevation changes at the end of the round.

13.   Sonoma Golf Club
This course is home to the season ending Champions Tour event and the Charles Schwab Cup.  This course contains the good, bad and the ugly.  The seventh hole is one of the neatest par threes I have played.  It is tucked in a small, intimate valley, with a creek running to the right of the hole.  However, there was far too much containment mounding added at some point and this is very distracting to what could be a classic test of golf.

14.   Dark Horse Golf Club
This is an affordable public course in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada’s.  The course isn’t maintained very well, but they routing and variety of holes, more then make up for lack of conditioning.  The greens and the surrounds have some very interesting contours.  There are also two great short par fours that make the golfer think.  This is a fun course, and could be really, really good if it was maintained a bit better.

15.   Harding Park Golf Course
This course will be home to four big Tour events in the coming years.  Having held the AMEX in 2005, Harding Park is rumored to get the Presidents Cup in 2009.  The course will continue to be a great test for the pros, but doesn’t offer much in the way of great architecture.  The short par fours are the best holes and the back nine is far stronger, then the front.  Play this course to see where you hit it compared to the PGA Tour guys.  “Th-o-se Guys are Good.”  Well, LONG is more like it!
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2007, 09:04:58 PM »
16.   Sharon Heights Golf and Country Club
The greens at Sharon Heights are very slick.  The course has a smaller scale Olympic feel to it as the bunkering reminds one of the works of Fleming.  The course has some substantial elevation changes and as some interesting holes.  Giant redwoods flank some of the fairways and make for claustrophobic landing areas.

17.   Half Moon Bay Golf Links – Old
This course is extremely claustrophobic with housing, but it does have some unique holes and shot making challenges.  It is much better then its younger sister.  The last three holes are solid and the course as an entirety is a fairly good test, especially from the back tees.

18.   San Juan Oaks Golf Club
This Fred Couples design is an odd layout.  I am a fan of weird holes, and there are some on this course.  Otherwise some of the holes with alternate fairways and other gimmicks just don’t work.  The course was in great shape.  If you’re tired of sampling the garlic in Gilroy with your wife, head down to San Juan for a little reprieve.

19.   StoneTree Golf Club
This is a good course to play during the wet winter months in Marin and Sonoma counties.  The greens are actually quite unique, as they have some very interesting internal contours that make for fun putting and shot making around the greens.  Other then that, not much there.

20.   Northwood Golf Club
The best course is California!  Ha-ha!  Alright, I may have gotten a little more excited then I should have about this course, but it is a fine course.  The conditions were above average, and the redwoods make for an inspiring setting.  This course would be out of this world if it were restored, as there was some impressive bunkering when it initially opened.  As a member of GCA, this is the kind of course I wish I were given and told to restore.  It would be a dream come true.

21.   Gleneagles Golf Club
Another course loaded with character.  The bunkering by the first green is tremendous.  The course is located in a poor part of town, but once you’re inside the fences, it’s a delightful experience.  This course is very quirky and most importantly, a ton of fun.

22.   The Links at Bodega Harbour
It was a good thing I had a crystal clear day when I played there, otherwise I would have had to focus more on the course.  The views of Bodega Bay and Point Reyes are spectacular.  I wonder if they have a three hole rate, I would play 16 -18, but the rest are, well, bad.  You know you’re in trouble when a housing development owns the golf course.

23.   Half Moon Bay Golf Links – Ocean
Minimal Maximalism????  Not sure what the hell was going on here, especially with the first 15 holes.  Good thing I had a fantastic view of the Pacific to distract me from the course.
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2007, 09:32:08 PM »
Jonathan -

Thanks for the most comprehesive write-up. You squeezed more golf courses into your 7-month stay in the Bay Area than I have in my 34 years here!

I am curious if you played any other courses that the did not make your ranking/review list - Presidio? San Geronimo? Tilden? Stanford? Richmond? Adobe Creek? Rooster Run?

Comments, however brief, on any other courses you played would be of interest. Thanks.

DT

By the way, nice job making the effort to play Gleneagles. There is a true "hidden gem."      

Jonathan McCord

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2007, 09:40:49 PM »
David - I wish I had played more, but there was only so much time.  :-\ Oh Well.  Those are the 23 courses I played.  Topics like this are often brought up on where to people should play when visiting an area.  I thought that it would be appropriate, and it was assigned by my Architecture 317 professor, Dr. Benham! ;) ;D  I'm praying for some extra credit!!!

I hope others enjoy or comment on the post as well.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 09:42:20 PM by Jonathan McCord »
"Read it, Roll it, Hole it."

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2007, 09:45:15 PM »
Jonathan -

Thanks for your reply and I understand the situation. I just wanted to make sure we didn't miss any more of your thoughts and  experience. It is tough duty indeed having to play all 23 of those courses! Thanks for the fresh perspective. Glad you enjoyed your stay.

DT

Josh Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2007, 10:55:41 PM »
Big John,
   
         Nice work.  Are you already leaving the area?  Dang!  I didn't realize you were a short timer here.  It looks like you missed two dog tracks in Monterey!  You will have to hit them if you are coming back.  You leaving?

         What is next?

Josh
         

Kevin_Reilly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #41 on: March 28, 2007, 11:15:33 PM »
I had heard that there were people who preferred the old course at HMB to the new one, but I'd never actually come across one.  

Same as people mugged on Gleneagles #4 or #5, I thought it was an urban legend.

 :)
"GOLF COURSES SHOULD BE ENJOYED RATHER THAN RATED" - Tom Watson

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2007, 12:40:54 AM »
Great work....congrats on experiencing one of the best regions anywhere. Find it interesting you have PGC so high.....and you missed out on SJ Muni, the ultimate test 8).
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Guy Corcoran, Jr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:San Francisco Bay Area...LARGE AREA
« Reply #43 on: March 30, 2007, 07:56:20 AM »
Jonathan, tremendous recap on the bay area courses. You are dead on about SFGC. I had an invitation to play a couple of years ago that coincided with a very important meeting and in passing I told the account I had an invite to play SFGC and he said to reschedule the meeting and that he totally understood the magnitude of the invitation to play there. Also one interesting tidbit about Peninsula Golf & CC besides being a hidden gem and one of my favorites when I get out there is that this was Donald Ross' first design west of the Mississippi.  

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back