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Tony Ristola

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Augusta's 11th
« on: March 28, 2007, 05:41:52 AM »
To the best of my recollection:

The Making of The Master's reveals the tee shot landing area on 11 had a small, blind central fairway bunker. Jone's father didn't like it too much (it was his son's idea) and eventually it was removed.

The fairway landing area has been flattened by Fazio, and since it has been, shouldn't they re-introduce the bunker to add a little spice/interest to the tee shot?

It would certainly get the golf world taking.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 05:43:11 AM by Tony Ristola »

Tom Roewer

Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2007, 05:50:05 AM »
*see my post of 3/27*  In this April issue of The Links magazine, Kelly Blake Moran suggests to "add center bunker to encourage strategic decisions off the tee"  Interesting that it was originally there in plans!  

Tony Ristola

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2007, 06:09:03 AM »
I always liked KBM.

Don't know if it was in the original plans...but by chance I have the book at hand...memory chip still works OK.

Page 123
"A small pot bunker was originally positioned in the center of the eleventh fairway at roughly the distance of a reasonable drive. The bunker which could not be seen, was Jone's idea. He had wanted the course to have a hazard that could be avoided only with good luck or local knowledge-sort of seemingly arbitrary booby trap that is plentiful on the Old Course. Jone's father...drove into the hazard during the first round on the course in 1932. When the Colonel found his ball in the bunker, he shouted, What goddamned fool put a goddamned bunker right in the godamned center of the fairway?"

The bunker was filled in many years later.

The Making of the Masters is a great read, full of info that explodes the long held myths of the club.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 06:11:12 AM by Tony Ristola »

BCrosby

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Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2007, 08:33:07 AM »
Jones said that the model for the centerline bunker on the 11th was the famous Woking c/l bunker. It was his idea to install it.

It is important to remember that the tee for 11 at the time was to the right of the 10th green (not to the left as it is now). It was basically where the new back tee for 15 is now. The drive called for a left to right shot that had to hold a strong right to left slope. Then to a green that favored an approach from the right. It would have been a fascinating hole.

Old aerials seem to indicate that the c/l bunker was there as late as WWII.

No one seems to know exactly when or why it was removed. You can still see traces of it in the f/w.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 11:16:55 AM by BCrosby »

john_stiles

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Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2007, 08:52:02 AM »
Tony,

The 11th is not visible in this oblique aerial.

ANGC had a number of other centerline bunkers at one time.  Look at the jagged edge bunker on the 14th.
Also note the centerline bunkers at the 2nd and the 8th.
The 18th appears to have a cross bunker as well if you played safe to the left side of the fairway.

John





« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 08:52:19 AM by john_stiles »

Tony Ristola

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Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2007, 09:12:14 AM »
John,
Looking at the Olmstead plan (1932) for the subdivision, all the bunkers in your photo are present.

You think they should reintroduce a central bunker on 11?

Paul Stephenson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2007, 09:19:30 AM »
If they put the bunker back, how many trees down the right side would have to come out?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 09:19:52 AM by Paul Stephenson »

Mike Hendren

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Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2007, 10:04:33 AM »
Matt Ward was quick to claim that the current 11th, lengthened and straightened is an improvement to the golf course.  I disagree.

The 2nd, 5th, 8th, 9th and 10th all bend left, as does the 13th.  The location of the original 11th tee and the centerline fairway bunker created a rare and much needed dogleg right where the approach from the inside corner took Rae's Creek out of play.  

I had heard the account of Jones' father relayed by Bob Crosby.  This fuels my suspicion that the key event in the evolution of Augusta National was Mackenzie's death.  It opened the floodgates to significant changes in the golf course over the next 25 years, with Jones creating a legacy of alterations.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2007, 10:04:44 AM »
From the back tees it would be out of play.

From the regular tees it would be pretty tough to thread your way through a very narrow tree-lined neck to be greeted by a c/l bunker.

Obviously the choice ought to be to take out the trees and put back the c/l bunker. But even then it would be in play only for long hitters off the member tees.

Bob

« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 10:05:35 AM by BCrosby »

Matt_Ward

Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2007, 10:05:55 AM »
Paul:

The inane INSERTION of "tree city" on #11 is simply a mega mistake, IMHO. Ditto the shifting of the fairway to the left. The hole should be returned -- save for the additional
length -- to where it was beforehand.

Having a wide fairway on #11 was not a weakness -- players who routinely pushed their shots to the right had no easy play to the green -- not with the pond hugging the left side.

The inclusion of the trees has taken a former stellar hole and turned it into some form of a US Open hole.

I like the idea of a center-placed bunker (provided there is a historical basis for it) but only if a return is made for a much wider fairway.

One other thing -- 86 the "second cut" as well.

Ken Moum

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Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2007, 10:44:32 AM »
Also note the centerline bunkers at the 2nd and the 8th.
The 18th appears to have a cross bunker as well if you played safe to the left side of the fairway.

What's interesting is that the map in the 2006 Masters Spectator Guide has that bunker on #8, and it's even the same shape as the one in that old photo. But the tee is all the way back and right, almost to the 17 green.

And the fairway bunker on 18 is well to the right of the current fairway bunker. It looks to me as if the old one came into play if you were trying to save some yardage and play up the right side. Also, if you bailed left, you'd becoming over that big greenside bunker at left front. And from that left side, the bunker makes it an almost completely blind shot.

It appears to me that the old fairway bunker on 18 made for much more interesting strategic decisions.

Ken
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Patrick_Mucci

Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2007, 09:46:58 PM »
Tony,

I think you'll find that most of the so called "center-line" bunkers were actually offset bunkers.

As to placing a bunker in the middle of the fairway on # 11, I think it's a bad idea.

The tee shot is not only blind, it's very awkward, very uncomfortable visually and physically.

You're hitting out of a narrow shute, blind, you've got dense woods on the left and need to cut the ball, new trees and rough right.

But, that's only part of the story.

# 11 can present an incredibly difficult approach shot from the middle of the fairway with a perfect lie, with water left, long and back right, with fronting terrain that slopes toward the water.

A more reasoned centerline bunker would be on a hole like
# 14, which is absent a water hazard.

# 11 presents a difficult enough hole, as statistics will bear out, and doesn't need an architectural gimmick.

All too often critics view ANGC solely in the context of those who play it for only four days each April.

One must also look at the golf course in the context of daily play by the members and their guests, and, a blind bunker in the middle of a tightened fairway with woods left and right, with an extremely difficult green/surrounds and water everywhere makes no sense.

A hole such as # 1, 8, 14, or 15 would be preferable to # 11.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2007, 09:47:49 PM by Patrick_Mucci »

Ryan Farrow

Re:Augusta's 11th
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2007, 10:40:04 PM »

I had heard the account of Jones' father relayed by Bob Crosby.  This fuels my suspicion that the key event in the evolution of Augusta National was Mackenzie's death.  It opened the floodgates to significant changes in the golf course over the next 25 years, with Jones creating a legacy of alterations.

Mike


I have been reading "Allister Mackenzie's Masterpiece" on Augusta national and it seems that Mackenzie was never given much respect for his work at the club. Perhaps Bobby Jones was one of the few who respected him and was often quick to point out that he was merely a consultant. Didn't Mackenzie also die around a year after the club had opened? Let us not forget this club was built during the great depression years. I think the floodgates were left out of the budget.


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