[Doug Siebert]

Problem is, I'll bet there's no way ANGC would allow CBS to show viewers what the course looks like the other 51 weeks of the year, as for whatever reason they want to preserve that fantasy of perfection.

If they did, it would be kinda cool to have a few cameras left on the course all year taking one photo at the same time each day and presenting them in a time lapse sequence to show the typical conditions, the process of getting it ready for the Masters, what it looks like when it is closed during the hot summer months, etc.

Either that, or they could release their annual greens budget expenditure, so people who complain to their supers about lack of perfection could be shown that figure that's probably close to 8 digits and told how much their share will be if they want those conditions!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Doug,

A daily, time lapse photo exhibit would be informative, but, it's not in the cards, and neither is the releasing of the budget.

ANGC hosts and televises a great golf event every year.

Unfortunately, a good percentage of the viewers don't understand the ebb and flow of conditions at ANGC, in and out of season.

That four day presentation, as spectacular and interesting as it is, provides viewers with an unrealistic expectation with respect to how a golf course should be maintained and presented during the entire course of a season.

I can't tell you how many times a fellow member, board member or green committee member has responded,
"well, ANGC does it", not understanding that the condition or feature isn't in that state for the entire golf season.

[JESII]

Why?
What does the dollars available have to to with prioritization

Pat,

I know exactly what your question was.

Your inability to absorb anothers response and discuss it rationally is pretty clearly explained by the ridiculous statement/question of your's quoted right here.

Your asking a superintendent to work with less money. Do you expect him to produce the exact same result? If so, you've insulted his/her previous efforts. If not, how, other than through prioritization, would you determine what practice is comprimised?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Why?

What does the dollars available have to to with prioritization

Pat,

I know exactly what your question was.

Your inability to absorb anothers response and discuss it rationally is pretty clearly explained by the ridiculous statement/question of your's quoted right here.

I'm afraid it's your failure to understand the difference between just cutting back as opposed to analyzing the operation with a different set of goals rather than retaining the status quo, even on a pro-rata basis, and then doing things differently.[/color]

Your asking a superintendent to work with less money. Do you expect him to produce the exact same result? If so, you've insulted his/her previous efforts. If not, how, other than through prioritization, would you determine what practice is comprimised?

Perhaps a lack of sleep could explain why your reading comprehension skills are lacking today.

Here's the initial question to Superintendents:[/color]

FOR SUPERINTENDENTS ONLY:

If you had NO GREEN committee, and you were told that your budget was $ X, and that the club would share, 50-50 any savings below X, how would you go about reducing the budget while at the same time presenting a [size=4x]viable product[/size] ?


It's not a question of prioritization, it's a question of re-examining the golf course, not in the context of continuing with the same practices, or pro-rata allotments, but, with an eye toward changing the goal and expectations, which in turn will result in altering the maintainance practices.

Classes start next Monday, be prepared.[/color]

[JESII]

Pat,

After you've done all of this analysis, and it's time to allocate next year's budget, how are you going to determine the adjustments in allocation for each maintenance activity?


FYI; synonyms for priority are: main concern, precedence, right of way. I would guess they have nothing to do with your decision either...

[Patrick_Mucci]

After you've done all of this analysis, and it's time to allocate next year's budget, how are you going to determine the adjustments in allocation for each maintenance activity?

That's not how it works.

The analysis and goal is to change the culture of golf and it involves far more than just reallocating the prior budget.[/color]

FYI; synonyms for priority are: main concern, precedence, right of way. I would guess they have nothing to do with your decision either...

Mowing fairways 3 times a week versus 5 and roughs 2 times a week versus 3 has nothing to do with prioritizing.

It has to do with the culture of maintainance and the expected product.

The savings that inure to those practices has nothing to do with prioritization.

Please tell me that you NOW understand that.

Raking bunkers on a "need to be raked" basis, versus a daily basis, had NOTHING to do with prioritization, nor does the savings that inures to that practice.

Tell me that you also understand that.

Reducing the application of water by 10 % has nothing to do with prioritization either.

I can see that you're light years removed from my advanced classes.  Fortunately for you, so are TE and Mayday.  Hence, you can still car pool to class.

However, I fear I shall have to order two additional dunce caps.[/color]

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Why?

What does the dollars available have to to with prioritization

Pat,

I know exactly what your question was.

Your asking a superintendent to work with less money.

NO, I"m not asking the superintendent to work with less money.  This is what you can't seem to grasp.

I'm saying to a superintendent, IF you didn't have a green committee or green chairman TELLING YOU WHAT TO DO, or HOW TO DO IT, how would YOU maintain the golf course to the conditions that you feel would produce a viable product.
And, to incentivize the superintendent AND the club I've inserted a profit sharing concept.[/color]

Do you expect him to produce the exact same result?

NO.
I clearly stated that.
However, I indicated that he should produce a VIABLE product.[/color]

If so, you've insulted his/her previous efforts.

That's absurd and an indication that you don't understand the concept put forth.[/color]

If not, how, other than through prioritization, would you determine what practice is comprimised?

You're not compromising anything.
You're changing a "culture"
You're changing WHAT you do, not HOW you go about cutting back on the dollars.[/color]

[JESII]

reduce maintainance costs while producing an acceptable product ?[/color]

Or, is that impossible given today's expectations and TV exposure ?

FOR NON-SUPERNTENDENTS:
Rather than offer vague generalities, tell us specifically, how you would reduce a green budget.[/color]

FOR SUPERINTENDENTS ONLY:

If you had NO GREEN committee, and you were told that your budget was $ X, and that the club would share, 50-50 any savings below X, how would you go about reducing the budget while at the same time presenting a viable product ?

Pat,

I posted your initial post here in case you forgot...after reviewing it, you may want to edit that post #57...

[JESII]

Pat,

I know what you're thinking right about now. My grandfather is going through the same problems, you may have been in school together.

You probably lose your keys once or twice a day...you occasionally put your underwear on after your pants. It's alright, I understand. Hell, you seem pretty energetic compared to him but he gets confused too. All it takes is 5 little words...YOU ARE RIGHT AND I AM WRONG. YOU ARE THE ALL KNOWING.

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

JES II,

It's the VIABLE PRODUCT that's the key.

That's the change in culture central to the issue.

Perhaps your grandfather is quite lucid and you're the one with sometimers.

[JESII]

Pat,

Why are you suggesting a change in culture is required?

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

JES II,

Because, without a change in culture the "TV" mentality for maintaining golf courses will prevail at local clubs.

I've admired Ken Bakst's efforts to change the "culture of golf" at Friar's Head.

No yardage markers.
No rakes for bunkers.

I'd like to see more clubs follow his lead.

Sadly, member owned/run clubs, where each member has an equal vote, will resist the transition in culture due to the democratic process and the perception of golf by the majority of the members.

Just imagine the uproar at your club and others you're familiar with if, starting tomorrow, there were NO rakes in the bunkers or on carts, and all of the yardage indicators were removed from the golf course.

Expand the process to include cutting back on mowing frequency, watering, etc. etc., and you can see that it would be a difficult uphill battle, especially if Mother Nature didn't co-operate.

Golf courses are NO LONGER maintained.
Theyre' GROOMED.

My educational wish for all golfers would be to play Maidstone and Newport for a season so that they could see what happens when a golf course isn't irrigated, and the resulting product is maintained differently.

I like firm & fast playing conditions.
I like greenish, yellowish, brownish fairways and green.
I like bunkers that are hazards.

I'm not a fan of double cut and rolled greens, checkerboard fairways and perfect bunkers.

But, I'm in the great minority

UNTIL,

the culture changes.

Unfortunately, TV isn't helping to expedite that change.

[Troy Alderson]

Troy Alderson

good post.

Now if you can get the fairways cut once a week, and the tees and ssurrounds twice a week, and the bunkers raked (not edged, just raked) once a week if the weather allows (ie not raining), well you are nearly there.  Just make sure you don't squib on the greens maintence, and don't squib on the aeration/scarifying/top dressing.

James B

James,

We think alike.  IMO aeration is THEE most important activity done by the maintenance staff.  I would never skimp on aeration at all.  With the amount of water I would put down, mowing would be cut down quite a bit to once per week, tees twice per week, and greens at least 4 days per week.

Troy

[Craig Sweet]

Troy...would you also be using a lot of PGR's?

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