The plus side of RTJ

[Andy Troeger]

Tommy,

I had almost mentioned Point O'Woods previously. It was the first truly great course I played and is still one of my favorites although its slipped down my list a little bit in recent years.

As you mentioned, the 8th is a wonderful testing short par four, and it has the trademark tough long fours as well. The 2nd is a great par five and the 9th is still one of my favorite holes in the world.

[Mike_Young]

Thanks, Bob.  That was very vicious and unprofessional.  That is not to say that architects should not be critical of another's work, but to do it in that personal way is below the belt.

Dick Wilson seemed to be a troubled but very talented man. I hope there is an in depth study of the man and his courses.

I can't think of an istance where another architect has anything to gain by criticzing another's work.  JMO
Mike

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:  Thanks for reminding me of Red Hoffman.  He was around Mr. Jones' office on my first visit, too, and seemed much more interested in talking with me than any of the design guys were.


The one quote from Mr. Jones which sticks in my mind was his claim that "Once I draw the plans for a course, any decent engineer can build it."  I guess this was true of his style and perhaps it was his own rationale for developing the style he did ... his personality was very much the CEO, willing to leave the grimy details to someone else.  But it always struck me that someone who had seen all the great courses, as he had, could convince themselves that the little details weren't important enough to demand your time.

(ps  Sorry if that breaks your rule on criticism, Mike.)

[Mike_Young]

Matt:  Thanks for reminding me of Red Hoffman.  He was around Mr. Jones' office on my first visit, too, and seemed much more interested in talking with me than any of the design guys were.


The one quote from Mr. Jones which sticks in my mind was his claim that "Once I draw the plans for a course, any decent engineer can build it."  I guess this was true of his style and perhaps it was his own rationale for developing the style he did ... his personality was very much the CEO, willing to leave the grimy details to someone else.  But it always struck me that someone who had seen all the great courses, as he had, could convince themselves that the little details weren't important enough to demand your time.

(ps  Sorry if that breaks your rule on criticism, Mike.)

Nah...didn't break my rule......

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I don't have a lot of experience with the various RTJ courses discussed here, but I agree with Matt; I've always felt Hominy Hill, in Colts Neck, NJ, is a good course, difficult, but fun to play.  Conditioning is more a factor of the county maintenance, but it provides a range of yardages; I think, from the very back of the tee boxes, the course can be played at about 7400 yards (it usually plays somewhere around 6800 or so from the backs).  It's worth a play sometime, as I used to do once or twice a year when I lived there.  

[Pete Lavallee]

Although I'm not partial to RTJ's style, I must admit that I enjoyed playing 5 of his courses: Valencia (featured this week on the Sr. Tour) Spyglass, SCGA Members, and Wigwam Gold and Blue. What can certainly be said of the first 4 are that they are all on a grand scale, which only adds to the intimidation factor. I imagine it's hard to fit such big tees, fairways, bunkers and greens into just any property. Perhap his grand style only worked because he commanded the best properties and budgets. Wigwam Blue is certainly the exception; short narrow fairways play to small turtle shell greens there. I suspect it must have been one of his earlier works.

[Tommy Williamsen]

One of my fqvorite RTJ course is the Gold Course and the Golden Horseshoe.  It has a wonderful collection of par threes.  After an awkward opening hole you are in for a wonderful adventure.  

Does anyone know how much Baltusrol Lower is Tilly and how much RTJ?  I know about number 4. What other changes did he make and what did he keep?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

One of the great parts of RTJ's book, "Golf's Magnificent Challenge," is when Trent recalls the conversation he participated prior to the building of Peachtree. It was at that meeting that Bobby Jones summoned all of his high profile corporate friends (e.g. the head of Coca Cola, et al) and simply announced his desire for a new private club away from the commotion at East Lake and that each would need to pony up a good number of bucks to get it started. Each complied.

Trent said at that point he understood the meaning of networking / connections and how to get things accomplished quickly. Ditto his role and participation with Laurence Rockefeller and the building of Dorrado Beach and Cerromar in Puerto Rico.

[Mike Hoak]

Golf Digest's website recently posted an interesting piece on the Jones family.  It even goes into the dispute between Bobby and Rees.  It can be accessed at the following web address:

http://www.golfdigest.com/courses/