[Jeff_Mingay]

Just curious about options available for surfacing cart trails - aside from asphalt and concrete. What's out there?

Any thoughts, and experiences are appreciated.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Atlantic Golf Club doesn't have cart trails-they have a "two track" where there are 2 wore areas around the tees and greens, one for each tire. Now I was informed, that at the end of each season, these areas are striped and just resodded-I think it pretty neat and keeps with an natural look.
  Jeff-Long Cove used to have coqina shell paths back in the 1980's-very natural to speak, but allowed for some incredible washouts, hard to keep the paths clear of debris and hard on equipment. Colleton River Dye does this-They have to groom them 1-2 times a week depending on play. We get too much golf here.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tony,

Ideally, we'd like to do exactly as Atlantic at Sagebrush. However, there are two main issues:

1. The course is in a dry, dusty desert; and,

2. Some paths must climb steep grades. The need for traction is a major consideration.  

[Scott Witter]

Jeff:

As most of us hate paths, but do understand their need as so often demanded by clients, I have often thought that a system built of a good stone subbase, but then capped with an idigenous stone to the area of the course (color wise), or for you (colour wise ) that is mixed with an asphalt based emulsifier.  Here in the US, many local townships will resurface county roads with a 'tar & chip' coating, which is comprised of a hot asphalt mixture and immediately (in a matter of minutes) covered with a fine crushed stone.  It can then be rolled to impact the stone into the asphalt material.  I honestly don't know what the maintenance proforma would be for this system but it has potential IMO

Other than asphalt and concrete and unless you are on a clean sandy site (dirty sand will bring up tons of dust) there are not too many options that will last.  On a nice clean sandy site I like simply sand and it is easyto maintain!

[Guy Phelan]

Depending on the amount of traffic, I have seen oyster shells used quite effectively.

[Ryan Farrow]

Jeff or Anthony, do you have any pictures of the cart paths at Atlantic? I could imagine a nice rustic look with that type of cart path. Also, what kind of grasses would you choose for something like this and what maintenance problems would need to be addressed?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Ryan,
  There are a few on this site that know for sure, but the sod that was used was the same as their roughs-possibly a bluegrass/fescue/mixture-It's a great look.
  Guy-Coqina is more or less just crushed up shells-We also have it in our waste areas.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Forrest Richardson]

At The Hideout, Utah, we used 1" angular road base compacted with a very large roller. They just add material every year or so. (Steep grades have concrete.)

[jeffwarne]

Anthony,
It's a nice look once it's mature ,but how many clubs are going to spring to resod their paths every year?
We used to drive around on the new sod to get "starter ruts"
so the members knew where to go.

Pretty dusty by July/August too.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jeff,
  I can imagine that it wasn't too cheap, labor intensive to have to replace also, but a great look non the less. At least you have all those sod farms around! I really thought it was unique though-I'd never seen that before. Were they resodded in the spring or fall?

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Mike_Young]

ground tires with a bonding agent

[Forrest Richardson]

Mike — A few years back I asked the supplier of the ground car tires whether it was flamable...they looked at me funny and did not exhibit for a few years. Maybe they have resolved that issue.

[Mike_Young]

Forrest,
I used it on some path where it was ground to about .375 diam chunks and spread at 2 inches.....then an emulsifier type spray bond was sprayed over it...it works great but does can float.....problem is it is much more expensive than concrete.....

[Mike_Young]

Forrest,
Did you see the vendor a few years back that had a bonding agent for sand used by the military in the desert.....he had sample cores of desert sand and was trying to sell it for your area.....did anyone ever use it....

[Forrest Richardson]

All of the bonding agents I have seen — most here are for use with decomposed granite, a crushed granular product used widely in desert landscapes, and naturally occurring — are great unless carts skid to a stop in an area. At Saguaro (We Ko Pa) I think they will need to address some areas because the bonding agent they sued is already lost where carts use brakes. But, I do like the alternative. It works very well at private clubs where there may be less play and cart use. Desert Forest, for example, is one such course where natural cart trails on decomposed granite has worked for 40+ years.

[Jim Johnson]

Jeff, check this company out...

http://polypavement.com

JJ

[David Sucher]

Jeff, fascinating question.

What's the "design load?" i.e. how many carts per day or week?  The course is designed for walking? So the number of carts you expect/hope will be fairly low. Right? And I assume that Sagebrush will be open no more than 6 months per year? That would be a big factor. Seems like even grass could handle one cart per hour/ten per day except maybe on the slopes. No?

Anyway, the totally top-drawer way to go might be stone or brick but I suspect that would also totally break the budget and might be too "refined" for the wilds of Merit (I've been there and love the area.)

I wonder about some combination of
•"grass-crete" pavers
• crushed rock
• "steppable plants" i.e. plans which are supposed to tolerate foot traffic and some degree of car traffic. See
http://stepables.com/index.htm

• There is also colored asphalt which might blend in with the native plants/geology.

• At the very far end might be "hog fuel" though that might not pack well enough in such dry conditions and might rut too easily.

[David Sucher]

Oh yes, I forgot to mention that the "two track" approach might work well with concrete or asphalt -- I assume the least expensive except maybe for crushed rock -- and might look great set in turf.

Two track driveways and lanes look terrific.

[Josh Smith]

Jeff,


      This might be just what you are looking for...

Cal Club, on our limited cart path plan for next year, will very likely be using a material which I feel is a cutting edge awesome alternative.  We were given the contact information from Cypress Point.  Looks like sand, dg, or dirt, depending on color, isn't slippery, isn't dusty, very minimal to zero erosion on steep slopes, compacts very well etc. etc.  Call me and I can put you in touch with a distributor and explain more about it.  I had planned to post something on it, but times have been busy.

I am very excited about this alternative.

Josh

       
     

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