Merion's #5 & ANGC #10 Bunkers - Why?

[wsmorrison]

Jim,

As you would expect, I disagree.  We're not talking lawyers here, we're talking architects.  I know plenty of cases where architects turned down work because they felt there wasn't anything that should be done, or to protect an historic feature that a committee wanted altered.  I have the highest regard for your consulting architects, too bad you do not.  The specific architects in question have told me I'm full of it several times.  If they thought I was a bonehead they'd tell me in private or in public.  That's what friends are for

Given that the legal consultants you hired wouldn't lie for you but would say what you want (if reasonable---what does that qualification mean?) I would say you engaged them for that reason or else why not engage one of thousands of others?  Your point has little bearing.  Would you have hired someone that was going to say something to hurt your case?

Now as to Malone or members of committees in general, please don't mistake politeness for weakness.  Of course there are all types of lawyers and golf course architects.  I would hope the ones hired meet certain qualifications and standards of integrity or why else hire them?  

By the way, I advocated a bunker that started 40 yards short of the green and ended 30 yards short of the green.  Given the choice of starting the bunker between 30 yards and 50 yards, I'd choose 50 yards because of the longer shot in.  However, Tom gave greater weight to all classes of golfers than I in this instance.  Sometimes I slip.  He may be right.  By the way, Tom wasn't advocating a bunker starting 20 yards short, but the trailing edge 20 yards short, 10 yards different than me.  If you want to call that a major difference of opinion, so be it.  Also it was your knucklehead that wanted to keep the hardwood on the right, not I.

[TEPaul]

Mayday:

You make a lot of good points on your post #30.

I'd sure have no problem with the way you'd like to go about it and it may be the best way to try it for a year or two. I don't think there's a better way to determine if something is working well or not than putting it through some close scrutiny in the old "test of time" analysis.

If it turns out after a time to be wanting and lacking strategically or whatever, then at that point perhaps the ideally placed bunker in there should be considered.

As JES said and as the both of us have been talking recently regarding some stuff at HVGC----eg someone like me or Ron or Jim can recommend things but we're definitely recommending it is something of a  theoretical sense. The fact is that none of us know that golf course as well as you and your members do.

My philosophy is if someone from the outside is going to recommend something on a golf course they should first interview the piss out of a whole cross-section of the membership. The whole trick of interviewing a whole cross-section of the membership though is trying to figure out how to limit guys like Mayday to his "equal time".  

But Wayne and I sort of figured out how to do that with him years ago. If he exceeds his "equal time" we'll just take him out to a local diner for dinner and put him on the inside of a back booth and beat the shit outta him.

[mike_malone]

 Tom,

    I think that if there is controversy or differing expert advice that one should not proceed with the proposed change.

   After all, Rolling Green was started by Quakers and their decisionmaking calls for "a sense of the meeting". This means that the majority needs to respect the minority and only proceed when they either agree or stand down.


     I can tell you that Rolling Green has a very passionate and engaged membership when it comes to changes to the course. Although not many are at my level of passion. It makes for a fun time, but you need a thick skin.

     

   

[mike_malone]

 Jim,

    Both of us were there with the consultants. You brought your experience playing the course and I happened to bring the master plan , our aerial photo history, and the original plans. Many times during that day they looked at these materials as we went around the course. I think these materials were more valuable to them than anything I said.

[TEPaul]

Yeah, right, Mayday. Started by Quakers or not just try telling your membership they need to either agree or stand down. A much better policy is to simply tell them to meet me and Wayne in the back booth of a diner on Friday night. Wayne and I are pretty creative when it comes to persuasion and we do not intend to beat the shit outta all the bunker dissenting members. A few of them who resist the bunker on #7 we plan to make eat the sand while in that diner that would've been in that app 3,000 sf bunker on #7. You know what Governor George Wallace used to say---"You can eat anything if you put enough Catsup on it first!"

[mike_malone]

 Based on her casual awareness of my participation on this site and my activities at my club , my wife the other day called me a


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