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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Framing
« on: October 28, 2006, 12:44:34 PM »
Good?

Bad?

Indifferent?

I seem to cringe whenever I hear the word.

What say ya'll?
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Framing
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 12:48:06 PM »
Depends on context.

Some architects are not conscious of it at all, but most are, to one degree or another.  I frame holes by how I place them against the background that's already there.  Others frame them by moving earth to the right places around the green.

But if you are really only paying attention to the shot values and not to what the golf course looks like ... the second does not have to detract from the first, but it can add a new dimension to the course.
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ForkaB

Re:Framing
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 12:50:08 PM »
Adam

It's necessary.  Every architect does it--good, bad, alive or dead.  Stop cringing and enjoy!

Rich
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Framing
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 12:53:50 PM »
Tom, If someone were to suggest adding bunkers to one side of a hole for framing purposes, what would you say?

Let's use left of the left side DZ on the ninth at Ballyneal as a hypothetical?

Rihc, Having just read about your new found appreciation for TOC, does the old links utilize framing? Also, learning you are 45 minutes away, can I invite myself over? ;)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2006, 12:56:47 PM by Adam Clayman »
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:Framing
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2006, 12:58:40 PM »
Adam:

We build bunkers for visual reasons some of the time ...

To distract your eye in one place so you won't look at something we don't want you to see;

To break up an artificial-looking grassing line; or

To mess with your distance perception.

I'm sure there are other reasons I didn't come up with at this moment, too.  Some will scoff at this -- MacKenzie warned against building any bunker which didn't matter to play, but I'd be glad to show you some examples of where he did the same things I've just described.

I have yet to "take it to the next level" -- a couple of my associates have suggested that Ballyneal looks unnatural because 99% of the bunkers are at the edges of the fairways, and that there should be more of them out in the dunes between holes to make the bunkers we dug look natural.
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ForkaB

Re:Framing
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 01:09:39 PM »
Adam

Even though the course wasn't really "designed," I'd be surprised if whomever chose hole locations did so without any sense of the overall structure and esthetics of the place.  BTW, who said my appreciation for TOC was newfound?  They were lying.

Come over, of course.  I have a pool and a pond.......... ;)

Rich
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Tim Copeland

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Framing
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2006, 01:20:10 PM »
Quote from: Rich Goodale on October 28, 2006, 01:09:39 PM
Adam

Even though the course wasn't really "designed," I'd be surprised if whomever chose hole locations did so without any sense of the overall structure and esthetics of the place.  BTW, who said my appreciation for TOC was newfound?  They were lying.

Come over, of course.  I have a pool and a pond.......... ;)

Rich





:^)

Its ok to write something in a book but when you are in the field the conditions warrant another way of thinking.

This is the problem I had with a University course I helped grow in and fix....the profs would suggest from book knowledge....but they had no real world dirt experience
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I need a nickname so I can tell all that I know.....

Mark_Fine

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Framing
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2006, 02:30:50 PM »
A "framed" green



and a non framed green



Depth perception (or lack there) of was once a key defense of this green.  The ring of trees "framing" the hole negated that.  
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Framing
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2006, 06:40:24 PM »
Excellent example of poor framing, Mark! And, Willows to boot.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Framing
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2006, 09:13:53 PM »
Mark,

I know it's only pictures, but...

I see it framed in both pictures. I would say the bottom picture is minus the matting however. The framing is is off in the distance, but with the dip in the distant tree line it frames the green.

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017
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